Total Depravity vs the Rich Man
score:2
I have actually asked myself this question before. I have two answers.
One, we can't assume everything in a parable is to be taken literally. In this case the concern he has is not real but is there to fill in the picture of the parable's main point.
The second, which I prefer as seeming more natural, is this. Total depravity does not mean men are without affection that seem good and are a reflection of true virtue (but not the reality). For example a parents strong love for their children can exist in the most evil of hearts. However, these natural affections actually have no moral value in them in that they are selfish based and more like an emotional appetite, like craving food.
True virtue and love comes from faith in Christ and flows from faith in his love for us. True virtue does not arise from our natural affection without such faith. In this sense maybe it is possible that people in hell are further tormented by having other loved ones there and worrying for them in their anguish.
Regarding this kind of natural affection these words of Jesus seem to assume:
If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! (NIV Matthew 7:11)
In either case, I do not think we need to infer anything against total depravity from the parable and speculating to far along the details of a parable (something I may have just done) is not the parable's intention. Actually I am still divided over which answer is better.
Upvote:3
I think you've got a misunderstanding of the concept of "Total Depravity" and of the definition of the word "good" from a Christian perspective.
Total Depravity does not mean that we are totally evil. It doesn't mean that we have no good within us whatsoever. Everybody on earth has some good in them, so it would be utter foolishness to interpret the doctrine in such a way.
On the other hand, "good" in our understanding is a relative term. We can do good things, we can think good thoughts. Someone who is generally caring, loving, and giving is considered a good person. But such a person is not perfect. Everyone has a flaw.
In the context of Christianity and salvation, "good" is a black and white issue. "Good" would mean 100% in line with God's thinking - in thought and in action. In other words, it would be completely without sin. Even one sin in our life disqualifies us from the level of "goodness" needed to earn our way into heaven.
For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10)
Which brings us back to total depravity.
It doesn't mean "devoid of any good thing". It means "Separated from God, and completely unable to do anything, whatsoever, that could do anything to assist in our own salvation."
In non-technical, layman's terms, it means that salvation is completely, 100% the work of God, with no action, not even one of surrender on the part of the believer. Totally depraved simply means completely separated from God, with no power whatsoever to do anything in the least to be saved.
This is contrasted with the belief of partial depravity, which goes hand-in-hand with resistible grace espoused in Arminian theology, which says we do have the power to do one thing - accept the free gift of salvation offered to us. In Arminianism, we believe there is an act of accepting the gift on the part of the believer. The believer has the power to choose. Grace is resistible.
In Calvinism, that power doesn't exist, or is an illusion because even if the believer thinks he is choosing to put his faith in Christ, the fact is that God predestined that believer to do so. The believer has no choice. Grace is irresistible, because God has ordained that person to believe.
Either way, however, both "Total depravity" and "Partial depravity" see no issue with the Rich man's ability to do good things. Again, everyone is capable of doing "good" just not the type of "good" that leads to salvation.
More post
- 📝 Can people who don’t believe, yet don’t not believe in Jesus Christ, still make it into heaven if they’re a good person?
- 📝 What are the benefits of a red letter edition Bible?
- 📝 Why didn't Adam and Eve die when they ate the fruit?
- 📝 What did Pilate mean by asking "What is truth?"
- 📝 Harmony in the pseudepigraphal writings?
- 📝 When did Catholic churches start using wooden clapper during Holy Week?
- 📝 What did the Apostolic and ante-Nicene Fathers believe about Sheol/Hades?
- 📝 What is the significance of the name "Jesus"?
- 📝 In the bible, who saw the light and was blinded?
- 📝 Wedding after a death in the family in the Eastern Orthodox Church
- 📝 How does the revelation of Blessed Emmerich harmonize the teaching of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy in Mary's Assumption?
- 📝 How do Mormons interpret Isaiah 43:10?
- 📝 According to Calvinists, Luke 22:8 what date did it happen?
- 📝 Is the New Covenant a unilateral or a bilateral covenant?
- 📝 What evidence is there to support the position that the Bible is truly the Word of God to mankind?
- 📝 Do any Church Fathers directly connect "speaking in tongues" with anything other than existing human languages?
- 📝 What proofs that the Jerusalem church held the same belief of St. Paul with regard to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus?
- 📝 How do open theists respond to 1 John 3:20?
- 📝 Introduction to Greek Texts; Byzantine vs. Alexandrian
- 📝 Can livestock or grain be used for tithe?
- 📝 Why did Pilate insist on writing 'Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews'?
- 📝 Can you give air-kisses to icons in the Eastern Orthodox church instead of physical kisses?
- 📝 How does the doctrine of the URC differ from its predecessors?
- 📝 What does 'ages of ages' mean, specifically?
- 📝 Why is Judges 20:46 so 'over the top'?
- 📝 The statements of the early Church Fathers regarding the doctrine of the Trinity (pre-Nicea)
- 📝 Is tithing something necessary under the new covenant?
- 📝 Is a moral society more open to the gospel than an immoral one?
- 📝 In what countries is Christianity banned?
- 📝 According to Full Preterists, what historical facts fulfilled the signs and wonders prophesied by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:9?
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 Total Depravity vs the Rich Man
- 📝 How are the Calvinist, Arminian and Lutheran conceptions of Total Depravity different?
- 📝 What is the biblical basis for identifying the Lazarus Jesus raised from the dead and the Lazarus in the story of the rich man and Lazarus?
- 📝 Who are the five brothers mentioned in the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:28)?
- 📝 How is the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus interpreted?
- 📝 According to Catholicism, why did Jesus not name the rich man in the story of Lazarus and the rich man?
- 📝 According to soul sleep adherents, why would God allow people to be massively misled by the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Lk 16:19-31)?
- 📝 In Mark 10:17-31, what did the rich man lack?
- 📝 How do adherents of soul-sleep interpret the parable of Rich man and Lazarus (Lk 16:19–31)?
- 📝 How is Abraham able to speak to the rich man across the chasm of hell in Jesus' story in Luke 16?
- 📝 Luke 16:19-31—Is the rich man in Hell or Purgatory?
- 📝 According to the Reformers, how does the doctrine of Total Depravity result in assurance of faith?
- 📝 Did the young rich man sin by not following Jesus?
- 📝 What is the Biblical basis for Total Depravity?
- 📝 Why did God kill a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath?
- 📝 Would the story of Jesus hold more significance if he were a man like us?
- 📝 What about the story of the "Rich Man and Lazarus" indicates whether it is a parable or not?
- 📝 Who is the young man mentioned in Mark 14:51?
- 📝 Why is it hard for a rich man to go to heaven?
- 📝 Does the Bible forbid a man from dressing like a woman?
- 📝 How can John the Baptist be the greatest man born of woman, when Jesus was also born of woman?
- 📝 What are the Biblical arguments against man having an immortal soul separate from the body?
- 📝 In the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, if a man becomes a widower, can he become a priest?
- 📝 How do protestants understand Jesus' statement that unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man we will have no life?
- 📝 Why did God not want man to have the knowledge of good and evil?
- 📝 What traditions believe that a woman's relationship with God must go through some man and how do they support it from the Bible?
- 📝 Was the fall of man inevitable?
- 📝 What is the biblical basis for the Dual Nature of Man as opposed to the Tripartite Nature?
- 📝 Is there Biblical support for the concept that 'Whenever a man lies with a woman...a transcendental relation is set up between them'?
- 📝 A.W. Pink and the Tripartite Theory of Man