What is the historical evidence for asserting Huns were one and the same as Xiongnu?
score:13
As I touched in the last paragraph of this answer, we don't really know who the Huns were. Its one of the great mysteries of history, up there with the identity of the Sea Peoples.
It appears the initial idea that they were the same people as the Xiongnu in the Chinese records came from an 18th Century French historian who also argued that China was initially an Egyptian colony. His contemporary Gibbon repeated the former (thankfully not the latter!) idea in his seminal Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was the English-language text on its subject for the next 200 years.
The initial logic appears to been circumstantial: after their defeat by the Han, the Xiongnu were pushed westward out of the Chinese sphere into modern Khazakhistan. A mere three centuries later, the Huns suddenly appeared as players around the steppe north of the Caspian sea (400 miles to the southwest).
There is some argument about whether the two names themselves would have been pronounced similarly. Some argue it would. There are some archeological similarities too (they both used the same kind of bronze pot, as did nearly everyone else on the steppe at that time).
Sadly the Hunnic language is no help, as we have only have 3 recorded words, and some names to go by. IMHO that would be determinative, but barring some lucky find in a Sogdian library, we are not likely to find out any time soon.
Upvote:4
Hunnic cauldrons were the same style as the Xiongnu of the 1st century AD. People think that the Huns brought them from Mongolia, to Central Asia and Europe, where they are found. Westward migrations, driven by nomadic warfare or Chinese offensives, were the prevailing trend in Pre-Genghissid Steppe History. There were almost never west-east migrations.
When they are not portrayed as some kind of malicious race, descriptions of the Huns suggest Turkic or East Asian origins. They are said to have had thin beards. There is a common description that the opening of the eyes were different "so as not to let light penetrate". It sounds like they are saying that they had very dark irises, small "whites", and maybe epicanthic folds. They were short, with long torsos. They had rounder heads and dark hair. One person says they had flat noses. A thorough, objective description of them is wanting.
Grousett has an interesting proposal for the Western Huns. "From the year 35 B.C., we lose track of the western Xiongnu. It was then that Che-che, the dissident Chanyu, having carried with him some of the Hunnic tribes of Upper Mongolia to the steppes north of the Aral Sea and Lake Balkash, was overtaken and killed by a Chinese expeditionary force. The descendent of the tribes which he led into this region were to remain there for centuries; but as they lacked civilized neighbors to record their deeds and adventures, nothing is known of their history. Not until the 4th century AD do we hear of them again..." Christopher Beckwith, who does not connect the two people, says that "The Huns had taken up residence northeast of the Sea of Azov... by about 200 A.D."
Here, we first hear about the Huns in 375 AD. They were located to the east of Ermeneric's vast new Ostrogothic kingdom, which they invaded and ended. The only reason I have seen proposed for this invasion, is that it was as a response to the threat of the new Ostrogothic kingdom on the Huns (Beckwith, 2009). They were now a Turkic people ruling over a Gothic-Sarmation population. These are the Huns that the Romans dealt with.
The Hunnic Empire broke up after Attila. Out of its core came Oguric tribes, the Kutrigurs and Utigurs. Ogur (or Oghuz) is the Turkic word for tribe, giving them their -gur name. the Kutrigurs became the Bulgars, and were Turkic. The first Bulgarian dynasty, the Dulo clan, claimed descent from Attila.
Many Hunnic names were Iranian. Therefore we see a core Turkic and Iranian component of the Huns. This is the same as the Xiongnu, especially early Xiongnu. The steppe at the time was divided into Sarmatians, in the west, and Xiongnu in the east. This is was the situation at the end of the Iron Age transition for the steppe. I've never seen any mention of a Turkic empire between them, it just wasn't likely.
The Xiongnu connection with the Huns isn't nearly as obscure as with the Hepthalites (Xionites). This is due to the obscurity of the latter. They migrated in a similar time frame to Bactria, and later India. Here I will also note a similarity between all these is the Xion- or Hun sound.
Otto Maenchen-Heflen. The World of the Huns. pg 297-331.
Rene Grousset. Empire of the Steppes
Christopher Beckwith. Empires of the Silk Road. pg 94.
More post
- 📝 Why did Teddy Roosevelt have his second wedding in London?
- 📝 How did 15th century royals identify themselves in England/Spain?
- 📝 Did the Muslims of Granada expect their Christian conquerors to keep their promised terms?
- 📝 What does the skull and crossbones on the Nazi uniform represent?
- 📝 What was the relationship between ancient Egyptians and Hebrews in documented hieroglyphs?
- 📝 What does 'trade in' mean in this article on the Westway project?
- 📝 When were the "War Relief Toy Works" set up and by whom?
- 📝 Live mummification
- 📝 Did the Nazis ever cite Martin Luther's "The Jews and their lies" to justify the holocaust?
- 📝 Who were some of the specific people in the Renaissance who wrote about their period being different from the Middle Ages?
- 📝 Has there ever been a society that viewed prostitution as a prestigious vocation?
- 📝 When did the <input> tag come about, and in what web browser?
- 📝 Did Søren Norby ever visit Iceland?
- 📝 Why didn't slaves just leave?
- 📝 What did US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart study as an undergraduate?
- 📝 Why didn't the Japanese disbelieve (1) an unencrypted emergency and (2) a report in a captured code?
- 📝 Why did Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia remain loyal to France during and after World War II?
- 📝 How can I research an old Nazi ring that grandfather brought back from war?
- 📝 Where can I obtain the full "British Statistical Blue Books" of British colonies in Africa?
- 📝 Were there regionalist/independentist movements or feelings in mid-19th century Spain?
- 📝 What did the nobles do after the French Revolution?
- 📝 Was there someone popularly labeled by public as "Lord Mum"?
- 📝 Why are Germans referred to so differently in different languages?
- 📝 Why did Khadafi chose to support Idi Amin?
- 📝 How did a 12 year old Sardinian slave girl factor into America's First Barbary War?
- 📝 Did any other countries try to breed a race out like what happened in Australia?
- 📝 Before the Civil War, did the USA ever offer something like a "5-year plan" for the South to abolish slavery?
- 📝 What did Dr. Peter Smith do with his windfall?
- 📝 Credible historic description of how the daily life was for the middle-class during the financial crisis of 1929
- 📝 Is it true that Plato travelled till Ganges river?
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 What is the historical evidence for asserting Huns were one and the same as Xiongnu?
- 📝 What historical evidence is there for the existence of Jesus Christ? What do we know about him?
- 📝 What were the original casualty projections for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
- 📝 What are the historical reasons for religious and political negative attitudes towards h*m*sexuality?
- 📝 What historical evidence do we have for the existence of Mohammed?
- 📝 What Land Runs were there in the U.S., and were the Indians paid for their land?
- 📝 What were conditions like for Chinese men subject to recruitment by the army during the Second Sino-Japanese War and Chinese Civil War?
- 📝 When were both minuscule and majuscule letters used for the first time in the same Latin manuscript?
- 📝 What were Helfrich's orders for Doorman in 1942 prior to the Battle of the Java Sea, and did he comment on these in later life?
- 📝 Were Serbs and Croats one people / tribe in the past? If not, why do they speak the same language?
- 📝 What is the historical name(s) for area between Syria and Mesopotamia?
- 📝 Were the Huns and Mongols at one point rivals?
- 📝 What were the requirements for Iron Cross first and second class?
- 📝 What historical evidence do we have for the Prophet Muhammed?
- 📝 What incentives were there for Soviet and Chinese politicians to try climb to the top when there was so much history of deposing their own?
- 📝 What is the benefit of historical studies for the process of creating tactics and strategies in foreign policy?
- 📝 What were the reasons for the Renaissance / scientific revolution in Europe?
- 📝 Was murdering a slave illegal in American slavery, and if so, what punishments were given for it?
- 📝 What is the historical basis for the Exodus?
- 📝 What were the reasons for making Prohibition a constitutional amendment?
- 📝 Why were British ships not of the same quality as French and Spanish ships until the latter part of the 18th century?
- 📝 Were there any Germans in Japan after the surrender of Germany in May, 1945 and if so, what happened to them?
- 📝 Are there any documented examples of wooden ships which were in active service for 100 years or more? If not, what is the longest?
- 📝 In WWII, what were the major differences in tank combat on the eastern and western fronts?
- 📝 What is the evidence to claim that political order in ancient Rome was sufficiently different under "kingdom", "republic" and "empire"?
- 📝 What is the historical basis for the claim that "Taiwan has always been part of China"?
- 📝 What were the EMP effects, if any, of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
- 📝 What was the shortest time between a historical event occuring and a museum opening dedicated to said event?
- 📝 What is the earliest evidence of contact between Ireland and Egypt?
- 📝 What East German laws and regulations were extended to the West after unification?