How do we argue when someone posits a non-causal universe
score:5
The question (currently) is unclear, but I think I can give some general advice for you to try out:
Challenge them to disprove the principle of sufficient reason.
When philosophers talk about causation, they are normally talking about the idea that everything happens for a reason. Sometimes we feel like misfortune dropped out of the blue for no reason, but all of us know that some chain of events lead to that event happening. We might never know what caused a particular event, but we generally agree that something caused it. It is, in fact, a sign of rationality to believe this.
I think the odds are very low that anyone actually believes that causeless events actually occur. Even if a person says that they deny the principle of sufficient reason, they probably behave as if there is a cause for every event. For instance, they feel safe from lightening on a clear day. So simply pointing out that denying causality is denying a foundation of reason might help clear up this point.
Determine if they believe in the static universe theory or something like it.
Until fairly recently, the state-of-the-art model of the universe was that it has always existed and can reasonably be expected to always exist. Such a universe need not have a cause because it's beginning is not an event. (This, by the way, is why God as a uncaused being is a logical possibility.) Since Edwin Hubble's great discovery, this theory has faced some serious difficulties. How does one explain the expansion of the universe without having a definite coming-into-being event? And since we believe every event has a cause (see #1), why should we make an exception for the universe itself?
Philosophically speaking, we can make an argument that the start of the universe is different. The trouble is that such an argument requires making our causality model more complex with no obvious gain except to avoid answering the question "What caused the universe?" It can be argued that that line of thinking is circular. Similarly, people get around the "problem" of the beginning of the universe with theories that account for expansion, but don't require a Big Bang. From what I can tell, these are motivated less by a desire to more accurately model the history of the universe and more by a need to find a model that satisfies the philosophical precondition of not requiring a cause for the universe.
Switch to a different tactic if you want to convince someone that God is the cause of the universe.
Going back to at least Aristotle, the question of what put all events into motion has been asked. The Philosopher's answer was, the Unmoved Mover. Naturally, us theists are quick to identify the cause of all other causes as God. But there's no particular reason to believe that. Certainly, Aristotle's students through the ages felt free to continue worshiping a variety of gods. Having convinced the other that there must exist a sufficient reason for the universe itself, neither side is compelled by the argument to except the other's given reason. A different approach must be found.
Conclusion
Personally, I've never found this type of apologetic to be helpful in "converting" someone who does not share my fundamental beliefs. We need Christian philosophers to engage on these topics as Christians, but ultimately it's God who will be able to convince people He exists, not us.
Upvote:2
This is a logical impossibility. If time had no beginning and no Beginner, then there is an infinite amount of time before now. If there is an infinite amount of time before now, we would never get to today, since you cannot traverse an infinite amount of anything.
So, it's logically absurd to suggest that time had no beginning. It did have a beginning and therefore has a cause (that is outside of time--and space and matter).
If someone is embracing logical absurdities, then rational discussion is probably not possible. You may as well suggest there both was and was not a first thing.
Upvote:4
Those that are not impressed with God's early work may be impressed with His later doings.
If find such a person who can get through Mark's Gospel without appreciating the earnestness with which the events in Jesus mission are portrayed; the rapidity of His miracles and signs; the wisdom which He chose to codify as His Gospel of love, then you've got a hard case and can probably wipe the dust from your sandals and move on.
I'm just saying, as much as its a good thing to believe in the infiteness of God, simply accepting that and becoming a deist is not the most grace ridden method for salvation.
Upvote:5
Do you mean that this person rejects the idea of causality itself? i.e. that he believes that things happen with no cause? Or that he rejects the idea that there must be a First Cause?
If he rejects causality, he is rejecting science as well as Christianity. You could, perhaps, propose experiments to show that the universe is predictable. Like, I hold a rock at arms length and let it go. Every time I perform this experiment it falls to the ground: it never hovers motionless in midair or flies off at an angle. Etc.
If he postulates an infinitely old universe as an alternative to a First Cause, I'd point out the Second Law of Thermodynamics: entropy. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but it tends to become more evenly distributed over time. After some amount of time, all the energy in the universe will become completely evenly distributed. As doing useful work requires energy differentials, at this point the universe would be dead. Physicists refer to this as "heat death". We can debate how long this will take, but it is a finite amount of time, so if the universe was infinitely old, it would have reached this state.
Some people try to get around this by postulating speculative theories, but none of these have any foundation in science: they are pure philosophical speculation. As far as the evidence goes, entropy is a well-established theory.
More post
- 📝 On what basis should Christians oppose child marriage?
- 📝 In Catholicism, what can the Saints be patrons of?
- 📝 Are things commonly blessed by priests at certain times of the year appropriate to bring to a priest for a special blessing?
- 📝 Did The Creator intend at first for Adam and Eve to have children?
- 📝 What is the Christian definition of "The Messiah"?
- 📝 Can I pray for the past to change certain aspects of life? (Catholic perspective)
- 📝 What does Matthew mean by "if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out", etc.?
- 📝 Does divine simplicity imply that God is identical to his attributes?
- 📝 Is the word of God things themselves?
- 📝 Does only one sin in your entire life disqualify you for the kingdom of God?
- 📝 Does Jesus's name lose authority in other languages? (Catholic)
- 📝 Have Jehovah's Witnesses' top leadership made a "vow of poverty"?
- 📝 How do dispensationalists understand the "antichrists" and "last hour" in 1 John 2:18?
- 📝 What is the Catholic understanding of the first sin committed by Adam and Eve?
- 📝 What is the "Catholic Church" acording to Anglicanism?
- 📝 Do the Mormons/ Latter Day Saints view of the Trinity and belief in a divine Mother make a practical difference to their ethics & conduct?
- 📝 Does the Associate Reformed Presbyterian church believe in replacement theology?
- 📝 Are there any denominations that teach their members how to hear God's voice better, as exemplified by the Apostles in Scripture?
- 📝 Eschatology, views and best commentaries. Best scriptures for each view
- 📝 Are there Christians who believe that Jesus does not have a physical body right now?
- 📝 When did we begin to exist?
- 📝 Does the Catholic Church allow the use of birth control to save the woman's life?
- 📝 How did the disciples hear God's voice and live?
- 📝 St. Thomas Aquinas on the Question: "What Must I Do to Go to Heaven?''
- 📝 How powerful (literally) is a soul? Has Any Christian sect calculated it or explained it?
- 📝 What role do the people of Rome play in the election of a pope?
- 📝 How do trinitarians interpret John 8:58?
- 📝 Which Prominent Modern Religions Came from the "Great Awakenings" and What Have They Done For the World?
- 📝 How do Protestants interpret Ezekiel 18:20-32?
- 📝 Do any Protestant denominations organize a canon starting from a collection of books other than the Roman Catholic Church's canon?
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 How do we argue when someone posits a non-causal universe
- 📝 How can apologists argue that if Jesus did not rise again then Christianity and the Church would not have lasted, when other religions have?
- 📝 How do young earth creationists reconcile the age of the universe with the speed of light, and visible distant objects?
- 📝 How could Jesus be born during the reign of Herod, and when Quirinius was governor of Syria, if those periods were not contemporary?
- 📝 When and how did men and women start sitting together in church?
- 📝 How can things considered bad when done by humans become good when God does them?
- 📝 When and how did the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John get attached to the gospels?
- 📝 How is it that someone who lived thousands of years ago can "represent" me?
- 📝 According to believers in the inexorable damnation of the unreached, how is God not unfair for letting someone be born in unreachable conditions?
- 📝 How should we dress when attending church?
- 📝 Is there any tradition that informs us of how old Mary was when she gave birth to Jesus?
- 📝 How far is too far when it comes to drinking alcohol?
- 📝 When the Bible says "forever," how can we tell it really means forever?
- 📝 How can we be sure our specific Christian confession is true, when every other Christian group claims that it's not?
- 📝 How old were Joseph & Mary when they marrried?
- 📝 How is Matthew 18: 8-9 explained in the context of non works-based salvation?
- 📝 How do Quakers know when to start and stop their church meetings?
- 📝 How can I be sure someone I know is going to Heaven?
- 📝 When and how did Martin Luther arrive at the justification by faith?
- 📝 When and how was the doctrine of the one divine will established?
- 📝 How can John the Baptist be the greatest man born of woman, when Jesus was also born of woman?
- 📝 How have major theological traditions handled "continuing to indulge in sin when saved?"
- 📝 How sound are the arguments that Melchizedek invoked a Canaanite deity when he met Abraham?
- 📝 How and when did the water come into being?
- 📝 How does our work on this earth transfer into the new earth when God returns?
- 📝 How does calling someone an "idiot" make one bound for Gehenna?
- 📝 How do Evangelicals explain when Paul writes "I, not the Lord"?
- 📝 HOW does the existence of the Universe make those who do not worship God to be "without excuse"?
- 📝 How and when was h*m*sexual practice separated from "h*m*sexuality"?
- 📝 The Mormon Church teaches that Joseph Smith saw God the Father and His Son. How do you reconcile this when the Bible says the Father cannot be seen?