How do trinity-believers explain these verses from John 17?
Upvote:1
Jesus is both Divine and human. So one simple answer is to take it that the disciples, as human beings, would have the same close relationship with God as Jesus in His human nature does.
This was fulfilled at Pentecost, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And its for all believers.
Upvote:1
Because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of the Son.
In “On the Trinity” (De Trinitate), Book XV, Ch. XXVI, St. Augustine wrote,
Furthermore, in that highest Trinity which is God, there are no intervals of time, by which it can be shown, or at least inquired, whether the Son was born of the Father first and then afterwards the Holy Spirit proceeded from both, since holy scripture calls him (i.e., the Holy Spirit) the Spirit of both.
For, it is he (i.e.., the Holy Spirit) of whom the apostle says (Gal. 4:6), “But because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts,” and it is he (i.e., the Holy Spirit) of whom the same Son says (Matt. 10:20), “For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.”
And it is proved by many other testimonies of the divine word, that the Spirit, who is specially called in the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, is the Father’s and the Son’s.
Deinde in illa summa Trinitate quae Deus est, intervalla temporum nulla sunt, per quae possit ostendi aut saltem requiri, utrum prius de Patre natus sit Filius, et postea de ambobus processerit Spiritus Sanctus. Quoniam Scriptura sancta Spiritum eum dicit amborum.
Ipse est enim de quo dicit Apostolus: Quoniam autem estis filii, misit Deus Spiritum Filii sui in corda vestra: et ipse est de quo dicit idem Filius: Non enim vos estis qui loquimini; sed Spiritus Patris vestri, qui loquitur in vobis.
Et multis aliis divinorum eloquiorum testimoniis comprobatur Patris et Filii esse Spiritum, qui proprie dicitur in Trinitate Spiritus Sanctus.
In “Catechesis of the Illuminated,” Lecture XVII, §4, St. Cyril of Jerusalem wrote,
For he is called “Spirit” according what is just read (1 Cor. 12:8), “For to one is given the word of wisdom by the Spirit.” And he is called “Spirit of truth,” just as the savior says (John 16:13), “But when that one comes, the Spirit of truth.” And he is called “Comforter,” just as it is said (John 16:7), “For if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you.” But that he is one and the same, while called by different appellations, is demonstrated from these. For, concerning the Holy Spirit and the Comforter being the same, it is said (John 14:26), “But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit…” And concerning the Comforter and the Spirit of truth being the same, it is said (John 14:16-17), “…and I shall give you another Comforter, so that he may abide with you forever, the Spirit of truth…” And again (John 15:26), “But when the Comforter comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth…” He is also called “Spirit of God,” just as it is written (John 1:32), “And I saw the Spirit of God descending…” And again (Rom. 8:14), “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.” He is also called “Spirit of the Father,” just as the Savior says (Matt. 10:20), “For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.” And again, Paulos [says] (Eph. 3:14-16), “For this reason, I bend my knees before the Father, etc., …that He would grant you…to be strengthened with power by His Spirit…” He is also called “Spirit of the Lord,” just as Petros said (Acts 5:9), “Why is it that you have consorted to tempt the Spirit of the Lord?” He is also called “Spirit of God” and “[Spirit of] Christ”, just as Paulos writes (Rom. 8:9), “But you are not in the flesh, but rather, in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if someone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this one is not his.” He is also called “Spirit of the Son of God,” just as it is said (Gal. 4:6), “But since you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son…” He is also called “Spirit of Christ,” just as it is written (1 Pet. 1:11), “…for what [person] or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating…” And again (Phil. 1:19), “…by your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.”
Καλεῖται μὲν γὰρ πνεῦμα κατὰ τὸ ἀρτίως ἀνεγνωσμένον, ᾧ μὲν γὰρ διὰ τοῦ πνεύματος δίδοται λόγος σοφίας. καλεῖται δὲ πνεῦμα ἀληθείας, καθὼς ὁ σωτήρ φησιν, ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ἐκεῖνος, τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας. καλεῖται καὶ παράκλητος, καθὼς εἴρηκεν, ἐὰν γὰρ ἐγὼ μὴ ἀπέλθω, ὁ παράκλητος οὐ μὴ ἔλθῃ πρὸς ὑμᾶς. ὅτι δὲ ἓν καὶ τὸ αὐτό ἐστι διαφόροις ταῖς προσηγορίαις ὀνομαζόμενον, δείκνυται σαφῶς ἐκ τούτων. περὶ μὲν γὰρ τοῦ εἶναι τὸ αὐτὸ τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον καὶ τὸν παράκλητον εἴρηται ὁ δὲ παράκλητος τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον. περὶ δὲ τοῦ τὸ αὐτὸ εἶναι καὶ τὸν παράκλητον καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας εἴρηται καὶ ἄλλον παράκλητον δώσω ὑμῖν, ἵνα μεθ’ ὑμῶν μένῃ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας. καὶ πάλιν ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ὁ παράκλητος ὃν ἐγὼ πέμψω ὑμῖν παρὰ τοῦ πατρός, τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας. Καλεῖται καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ, καθὼς γέγραπται· καὶ εἶδον τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ καταβαῖνον, καὶ πάλιν, ὅσοι γὰρ πνεύματι θεοῦ ἄγονται, οὗτοι υἱοὶ θεοῦ εἰσιν. καλεῖται καὶ πνεῦμα πατρός, καθώς φησιν ὁ σωτήρ· οὐ γὰρ ὑμεῖς ἐστε οἱ λαλοῦντες, ἀλλὰ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ πατρὸς ὑμῶν τὸ λαλοῦν ἐν ὑμῖν. καὶ πάλιν ὁ Παῦλος· τούτου χάριν κάμπτω τὰ γόνατά μου πρὸς τὸν πατέρα, καὶ ἑξῆς, ἵνα δῷ ὑμῖν κραταιωθῆναι διὰ τοῦ πνεύματος αὐτοῦ. καλεῖται καὶ πνεῦμα κυρίου, καθὼς Πέτρος · τί ὅτι συνεφωνήθη ὑμῖν πειράσαι τὸ πνεῦμα κυρίου; καλεῖται καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ καὶ Χριστοῦ, καθὼς γράφει Παῦλος· ὑμεῖς δὲ οὐκ ἐστὲ ἐν σαρκί, ἀλλ’ ἐν πνεύματι, εἴπερ πνεῦμα θεοῦ οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν. εἰ δέ τις πνεῦμα Χριστοῦ οὐκ ἔχει, οὗτος οὐκ ἔστιν αὐτοῦ. καλεῖται καὶ πνεῦμα τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ, καθὼς εἴρηται· ὅτι δέ ἐστε υἱοί, ἐξαπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ. καλεῖται καὶ πνεῦμα Χριστοῦ, καθὼς γέγραπται· εἰς τίνα ἢ ποῖον καιρὸν ἐδήλου τὸ ἐν αὐτοῖς πνεῦμα Χριστοῦ. καὶ πάλιν· διὰ τῆς ὑμῶν δεήσεως καὶ ἐπιχορηγίας τοῦ πνεύματος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Since the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Father and the Son, dwells in Christians, the Christian is spiritually united with the Father and the Son, for "he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17).
Upvote:3
Read it in the context as one in purpose, yet separate in person... John 1:1-14
While I am a separate person, in purpose I am in unity and the same as other followers of Christ.
To quote a sermon of John MacArthur's:
He [Jesus] prays that there may be a spiritual, holy, loving oneness, a visible oneness that the world can see in order that they may believe.
More post
- 📝 Where was Catholic doctrine defined before the Catechism?
- 📝 What is the basis for saying that Adam was created without sin?
- 📝 Which denominations are considered mainstream in the UK?
- 📝 Is Judas liable for his betrayal sin?
- 📝 What is the source of the count of 40000 denominations, and how are they classified?
- 📝 Are there examples of "successful" celibate h*m*sexuals, according to the Catholic Church?
- 📝 What is the difference between "Catechism" and "Canon Law" in Catholicism?
- 📝 Did Jesus actually ever say "if you don't believe in me you will go to hell"?
- 📝 What is the Biblical basis for Catholic blessings?
- 📝 What are other explanations for Malachi 4:5-6?
- 📝 How do Biblical Unitarians interpret Isaiah 9:6?
- 📝 Could you please help me locate this hymn?
- 📝 What is the source of Pascal's quotation on staying home peacefully?
- 📝 What Bible "type" disambiguation?
- 📝 What is the falling out between Tullian Tchividjian and The Gospel Coalition about?
- 📝 According to the Catholic Church is it sinful to address someone who is transgender by the gender they identify as?
- 📝 Are there denominations which prefer using the name "Yeshu‘a" instead of "Jesus"?
- 📝 What arguments would you give to teenagers who are unconcerned about eternal life?
- 📝 How do holders of a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 interpret the word "rule" in verse 16 in light of its apparent contradiction to observation?
- 📝 How do Catholics reconcile the Immaculate Conception with Romans 3:23?
- 📝 A promise in Acts 16:31?
- 📝 How do Protestant Christians understand the “Sabbath-rest for the people of God” in Hebrews chapter 4?
- 📝 Why does the (N)KJV put Jesus' name in all caps in Matthew 1:21 and Luke 1:31?
- 📝 What was the Angelic Psalter that Our Lady told St. Dominic to preach?
- 📝 What is the Catholic definition of divinity?
- 📝 What does the bible say about drinking?
- 📝 Are there any Church traditions or legends that state what species of fish Tobias caught in the Book of Tobit?
- 📝 Why were the golden plates necessary if Joseph Smith received his translation of the Book of Mormon by viewing a stone in his hat?
- 📝 Why were the interpreters called "Urim and Thummim"?
- 📝 Is there a record of an association of prayer with pain?
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 How do trinity-believers explain these verses from John 17?
- 📝 How do Trinitarians explain that Jesus himself claims He is a man who has heard things from God at John 8:40?
- 📝 How do Trinitarians explain verses where Jesus claims to have a God?
- 📝 How do Trinitarians explain John 17:3?
- 📝 How do Jehovah's Witnesses explain John 8:58-59 in a way that accords with their doctrine?
- 📝 How do those who deny Jesus' pre-existence explain the large number of verses suggesting it?
- 📝 Question on John 4:13-14 - How do we drink of the water from Jesus?
- 📝 How do Eastern Christians explain Jesus "sending" the Holy Spirit in John 15:26?
- 📝 How do Trinitarians explain the Athanasian Creed saying that the "one God" is the Trinity rather than the Father as in the Nicene Creed?
- 📝 How do people who believe in immediate heaven for believers at death explain Tabitha?
- 📝 Explain similarities and differences in "sinless from the womb " for James, John the Baptist and Mary
- 📝 How do Unitarians understand these verses which seem to say that all created things were created by Jesus?
- 📝 How was John the Baptist, as a child, protected from Herod's soldiers?
- 📝 How do Biblical Unitarians contextually explain Thomas' exclamation at John 20:28?
- 📝 How do these parables explain time in Heaven?
- 📝 How do Catholics explain Hebrews 13:10 and John 6:54?
- 📝 How does Catholic Church explain John 1:31?
- 📝 How does the Catholic Church explain the differences in the verses of Lk 4:18 vis-a-vis Isiah 61:1
- 📝 How do Cessationists interpret John 14:8-14, especially verses 11 and 12?
- 📝 How do believers in Jesus' deity explain that Jesus is never claimed to be God/divine in the Old Roman Creed and the Didache?
- 📝 How do those who hold Trinitarian doctrine existed from the earliest days of the church explain the lack of debate about it in the New Testament?
- 📝 How much of the text of the Gospel of John can be substantiated by early copies and quotes from early Church Fathers?
- 📝 How do believers in the tripartite nature of man (body, soul and spirit) explain Jesus' omission of the word "spirit" in Matthew 10:28?
- 📝 How do Trinitarians who argue the 'ego eimi' at John 8:58 ought to be translated 'I AM' explain the lack of reactions to the same phrase?
- 📝 According to those who hold that the Word at John 1:1 is a person, how do they explain 1 John 1:1 using 'that' instead of 'who' for the Word?
- 📝 Are these verses from Proverbs contradictory?
- 📝 How verses from OT are selected for Jesus
- 📝 Trouble finding these quotes from St. John Chrysostom
- 📝 How do believers in the dead being conscious explain the absence of reports about afterlife experiences by Lazarus and other resurrected individuals?
- 📝 How do Catholics reconcile these verses about giving publicly and yet privately?