How do Trinitarians respond to passages in the Bible that seem to clearly distinguish between God and Jesus after his ascension?

The case in point, which you seek answers to, is the view quoted that deals with two issues. First, information about God and Jesus as in the last book of the Bible, Revelation. Second, theology regarding "consubstantiality". Yet the second point is confined to the first - how Trinitarians understand the clear distinctions shown between God and the ascended Jesus Christ, as detailed in the book of Revelation.

It should come as a surprise to nobody informed about Christian theology that Trinitarians see Revelation constantly demonstrating the ascended Christ to "share the one substance of the Father" (the consubstantiality issue as so worded in the middle of the Nicene Creed). One divine 'substance' is the 'substance' of the one God. Trinitarians believe the Bible shows that the eternal Word of God, who became flesh as the man Jesus, who then was resurrected and ascended back to heaven with a now-glorified body, remains (as always) as of the same, one divine nature as the Father. Within the Godhead there always has been, and ever will be, distinctions of relationship and functions. A sort of divinely-agreed-united-responsibility, with Father, Son and Holy Spirit utterly united in one Spirit, in one divine nature.

Why the last book of Revelation should throw up problems for Trinitarians (according to Dr. Steven Nemes), says more about his disagreement with the consubstantiality issue throughout the entire Bible than it does about the consubstantiality matter (of fact) in its last book. Trinitarians could show that a 'chain' of revealed information starting from the throne of God in heaven, works down to God's people on Earth via the ascended Christ and angels. Angels are delegated with specific duties in the outworking of the visionary events. This really should not need to be said, but in case anyone is labouring under the wrong impression that events in the book of Revelation are literal, they are not. The apostle John received visions, designed to depict events that cannot be seen on Earth, but which are going on in the invisible realm. John did not literally enter heaven to see Christ looking like a lamb that had been slain standing in the center of the throne of God, taking a seven-sealed book out of God's hand, and so forth. But before he could see those visions, he had to turn at the sound of a great voice behind him (Rev. 1:9-19). Only then did he see the glorified Christ and start getting explanations from him. If people don't 'turn', that's because they either don't hear or they refuse to turn anyway. Then they will never 'see' the ascended Christ.

Really, why should Trinitarians show why the ascended Christ's relationship within the Godhead in the book of Revelation explains Dr. Nemes proposed problem, when it is no problem to anyone who has understood what all the other books of the Bible show on that score? That really would be a case of putting the cart before the horse!

Further, if I give some of the many examples in Revelation that show the continuing relationship and unity in heaven, that was on Earth, and was before time began, others will only jump on them to start arguing, especially if they see this as a "Gotcha!" question. For those who are decided that Jesus of Nazareth had no pre-human existence as the eternal Word of God, nothing will remedy that stance if they start at the end and try to work backwards. Revelation about just who Jesus of Nazareth really was, when on Earth, came to the apostle Peter by a divine revelation from God the Father in heaven. Jesus said so:

"He saith unto them [the disciples], 'But whom say ye that I am?'

And Simon Peter answered and said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'

And Jesus answered and said unto him, 'Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven'." Matthew 16:15-17 (A.V.)

Just as Peter had divine revelation as to who Jesus really is, so John had divine revelation over 60 years later. But it was the same Jesus both of them had faith in. Location has no bearing on this matter of understanding just who Jesus really is. The Father reveals the Son, and the Son reveals the Father, and the Holy Spirit is the one who gives the true understanding. (John 5:23 & 6:44 & 10:26-30 & 12:28-30 & 14:6-11, 20-26 & 15:26 & 16:7-15) Understand what all those verses mean, and you will see why Trinitarians have no problem with Revelation.

The book of Revelation shows there is no problem such as Dr. Nemes suggests, for those who have turned to hear and to see. Dr. Nemes, in those quotes, is making claims that show he misunderstands what's symbolically going on in Revelation, because he has not first had divine revelation of the Son of Man also being the Son of God, therefore how can Trinitarians respond? My answer is to read all those scriptures inbetween the two bold sentences.

This is an old one and I'll follow on from @Mary's comments. This is far from the first time the church has been here, for example:

Psalm 2:7, NIV

I will proclaim the Lord’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father.

Psalm 2:7, ESV:

I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.

This is the relationship between God the Father and Jesus, which is how the early church has always considered this passage to infer the relationship between Father and Son.

The best way to consider this is the Father has eternally begotten the Son. This provides a rationale explanation because within eternity both the Father and Son have always existed.

A better way to consider this is we simply struggle to conceptualise the Trinity. This is how exactly how I personally would answer the OPs question.

For example, can anyone completely conceptualise a deep learning algorithm, you know the stuff that does the "Google translate" and all the computer vision calculations?

The answer is no, there are aspects of this algorithm that are essential to its function and there's a general idea of how it works, but no one empirically knows why they work and I mean no one. In coding, that's not an uncommon situation - there's a problem coder tries a few things, "subconsciously" codes through the problem, and then bingo it works, but how? A coder gets an intuitive insight but can't readily verbalise why and that can lead to solutions that are difficult to understand.

If that is the case with an algorithm under our complete detailed analytics what chance do with have of understanding Trinity which is far outside our analytics?

Interesting discussion BTW and cool it flagged up on my "hot topics" list.

Trinitarians believe that the glorified human nature of Christ exists forever. This is important to show the fidelity of God to

• our future hope of one day to be resurrected into a glorified eternal bodily existence (like what Jesus already has)
• our future hope that we will enjoy our bridegroom Jesus face to face eternally in glorified bodily form (but right now we can only pray to him mystically)

Before glorification, while Jesus was on earth, although Jesus as Word possess omniscience, Jesus in his human nature did NOT access this ability, which Fr. Thomas J. White likened (in a Church Grammar episode on Christology the section on the Holy Spirit's role in Christ's human life, 41:46 to 45:54) as someone who has the ability to play violin expertly but decided not to play violin at particular time of his life. So in his human nature, Jesus was docile to the Spirit of the LORD, receiving only the revelation that the Holy Spirit wanted Jesus to tell the disciples (and us, through the New Testament). This includes the time of the last day, cf Acts 1:7:

He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.

Thus, we see a similar operation in Rev 1:1,

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him [Jesus's human nature] to show his [Jesus's] servants what must soon take place, and he [Jesus] made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.

where God revealed what God wants us to know via the agency of the human nature of Christ.

The answer is simple! As I've stated hundreds of times the Father has no separate manifestation from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and REVELATION of the Father SO HE GAVE IT TO JESUS.

Moreover, in regards to being "cosubstantial" the following statement explains it this way? "To say that Jesus is “consubstantial" with the Father is to say nothing other than He is of the same nature as God the Father."

Now, this statement was made, "And one cannot be given a revelation if one already possesses knowledge of the relevant mystery,"

Let me give you an example by addressing the statement. Revelation 19:12, "And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself."

Now, would one make the argument that God the Father does not already possess or know the name written upon His Son? I think Dr. Steven Nemes is not only grasping at straws but his argument is "fallacious."

First, I will answer the question as posed in the title. The Ascension does not make a difference. Jesus ascended bodily into Heaven, and therefore His humanity also ascended.

Second, as the Father and the Son existed for all of eternity, there was never a time when the Father was not begetting the Son, and likewise never a time when the Father was not revealing the truth to the Son. Therefore, the claim that the Son must have been ignorant in order to receive a revelation is not sound.

Jesus answered and said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also.For the Father loves his Son and shows him everything that he himself does,