Can a stream enterer commit suicide?

A stream enterer cannot commit suicide. In other words, will not commit suicide out of "not having the desire to live anymore". They don't have such "desires". Suicide is an act of ego and mentality. Considering that a Sotapanna have eradicated the 3 primary mental hindrances; which are ego belief, doubt on reality, and clinging to delusions, they will not "desire" or get involved in selfish acts that originate out of certain life views. A Sotapanna has very little depression, because they live in reality so they act accordingly. And if they are to commit suicide, they will do it consciously, and for a good reason. Not out of desire nor depression. Remember that a sotapanna is 1/4 awake, and they know where they are going.

Breaking vows. Not to kill is a vow. Taking ones one life amounts to killing. Unless one has good reasons like sacrificing ones life to save the whole world, otherwise not possible to be enlightened this way.

Yes, a stream enterer can commit suicide.

A stream enterer is a person who experiences Nibbana, Ultimate Reality-(whatever you call it doesnt matter) and after the first experience of limitless blissfull happiness, they will experience it time to time that brings them temporary limitless happiness. A stream enterer is simply "captured" by the ultimate reality and whether he likes it or not, the Ultimate Reality will inform, shape, transform, purify him. A stream enterer's whole life becomes very intense, involuntary meditation without the person's applying of any meditation techniques. And unlike the vast majority of the meditators believe Stream Etry-Sotapanna stage is a very difficult stage. It is true that before the attainment of stream entry, a meditators, has great development in spirituality and greatly purifies their mind that will benefit them in the current and next lifes. But after the realization of Nibbana for the first time, they will start to face and purify their subconscious mind, which is much more intense and complex. Anyone, who practises intensive meditaton, mindfulness and morality can achieve this goal. Even in a short period of time. But the danger is, If a person who has a heavy mind with lots of suffering that comes from current and past lives can have a very difficult time(even considering suicide seriously) during the Ultimate Reality's natural purification process of this person's mind. So it is always better to have a guide, spiritual teacher, guru, patience, and necessary support systems for anyone who is interested to spirituality(sotapanna or not soesn't matter). Because "the dark night of the soul" is different for different people(and generally it is not just one night lol) and I think most people can get through it with patience. But just have the necessery support systems and don't confuse Stream-Entry with sakadagami-who goes beyond of the "dark night of the soul" and only have remnants of greed and anger in their minds that cannot disturb their peace of mind. Don't practise alone, have a guru, sangha who will support and assist you whenever you need. And don't underestimate the suffering of your mind, If you become a sotapanna or not doesn't matter. And even that the Sotapanna(except temporary blissful states) is far from true happiness, he/she will benefit greatly from their achievements afterlife. So it is always great news to achieve this state, even If the majority of people doesn't understand the true dynamics of this state.

My personal opinion is that a stream-enterer will not commit suicide. If I am a stream enterer in this life my next goal is to move to the next level. I consider stream-enterer is almost an Arahant considering that he most have another seven lives. There is a great discussion on this point in Dhamma Wheel. https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27879&p=397389&hilit=

As thought proper by some. The side-effects of reaching the Dhamma-grounds is, that through right view, right understanding, one is no more able to perform (even strong deliberatly and planned in this case) deeds which cause one to fall into lower realms. React of situations as if they would be hell-like, how could that be? How comes that one falls into such states to even consider such seriously? Once the Dhamma is realiced, it's no more possible to be that burdened by the loka-dhammas (incl. happiness and pain, lose and gain...). Simply foolish action, when thinking even on rational consideration for one who should not have a problem at this level.

As for one practicing, stong pain, deathly pain, has to be endured, counts as destruction of defilements by enduring.

Althought it might get agains certain attachments to such deeds, and might be understandable thinking in usual pattern, this case has to be considered as a "loser"-case and far away from holding it as heroic, as the sell does...

There are a few examples of the Buddha saying that an arhat has killed themselves and then attained final nirvana In general, there is an ambivalence in Buddhism toward suicide by arhats, due to the popularity of suicide in ascetic India.

See e.g. Peace in the Buddha's Discourses, p23.

I don't really have an opinion on the topic, but think in some extreme cases of unremitting physical pain it can make sense. And what about martydrom

This is partly speculation on the part of the editor of the collection of this letters. I have the Sinhala book my self. Hence we do not know what happened. Only we thing we know for sure is that the Ven. Sir was bitten by a poisonous spider. Anything other than this is speculative. So it is best not draw conclusion on speculative incidents.

Also suicide does not seam to be a valid option for a monk as it is a Parajika offence.

In addition this does not set a good example to society hence should not be done.

In case you just believe you are stream entry by mistake then you end in misery. Also your loved ones also end in misery. Hence one should not contemplate, set an example, or in the slightest sense promote this line of thinking

The level of buddhist fundamentalism present in this thread is disgusting. People really think that they have understood the workings of the unknown by reading about the specific experiences of a few people (aka gautama etc) and generalize a structure of awakening. This is laughably sad. Awakening is not a straightforward process nor does it ever happen in two people in the same way. There are exception to almost every map of enlightenment (of which the buddhist map is the absolute weakest and most erronous). Yes a stream enterer can commit suicide, ofcourse. It has happened before in more cases than one. No stream entry does not do what buddhists claim that it does. All that has happened is that the energy in the body has temporarily crossed the threshold of the third eye and touched the crown chakra and the person has temporarily had one of the MANY experiences of trancendance that are possible. And now, the higher energy starts opening up all the unlocked karmic energies in the system and dragging the practicioner through the dark night of the soul. But a small part of the awareness now rests in the higher realm/nibbana and that allows SOME manner of stillness and detachment to remain even as the process of karmic purging begins anew. If a person is a good 'buddhist', indoctrinated to not care about the world, they may feel that they are getting enlightened and not kill themselves and find some solace in the still realm. If on the other hand they really do care about some things in the world or their humanity, the small connection to the formless realm may not be enough to stop them from killing themself. It depends on where the person stands. Trying to use buddhist "if x then y" logic just because it was written in a stupid sutta will only lead you into falsehood. the universe works in far more varied ways than sattopatana or other suttas would have you believe. Look up shamanic death to get a different perspective on the process. Parts of the formless are blissfull and worthwhile while other parts are horrifying and life denying. Just goes to show you how lousy of a track record the fundamentalist buddhist schools have at actually enlightening people that most of them talk so freely and with such confidence about things that they actually have no experience of.

• written by a stream enterer

As i interpret the texts it is possible that an aryan can commit suicide.

There is a case where the Buddha says that one who does not take up another body is blameless if they were to use the knife.

Moreover, friend, for a long time the Teacher has been served by me in an agreeable way, not in a disagreeable way; for it is proper for a disciple to serve the Teacher in an agreeable way, not in a disagreeable way. Remember this, friend Sāriputta: the bhikkhu Channa will use the knife blamelessly.”

[ I edit out the part where Sariputta interrogates Ven. Channa ]

Then, when the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Mahacunda had given the Venerable Channa this exhortation, they rose from their seats and departed. Then, soon after they had left, the Venerable Channa used the knife.

Then the Venerable Sāriputta approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him: “Venerable sir, the Venerable Channa has used the knife. What is his destination, what is his future bourn?”

“ Sāriputta, didn’t the bhikkhu Channa declare his blameless-ness right in your presence?”

“Venerable sir, there is a Vajjian village named Pubbavijjhana. There the Venerable Channa had friendly families, intimate families, hospitable families.”

“The Venerable Channa did indeed have these friendly families, Sāriputta, intimate families, hospitable families; but I do not say that to this extent one is blameworthy. Sāriputta, when one lays down this body and takes up another body, then I say one is blameworthy. This did not happen in the case of the bhikkhu Channa. The bhikkhu Channa used the knife blamelessly. Thus, Sāriputta, should you remember it. ” SN35.87: Channa

In a Sarvastivadin text (Milinda Panha) which is considered to be a part of Theravadin canon we can see a similar pattern of speech where an Arahant answers a question but the questioneer not being satisfied with the answer repeats the question. In this case the Arahant answers in the same manner as Buddha does, as "didn't you already get an answer to this question?"

An example of this is where Milinda asks Nagasena repeatedly if he was going to be born again. Ven. Nagasena initially answers saying that he will take up another body if he were to have attachment and that he wouldn't if he were otherwise. Milinda not being satisfied with the answer asks again to which Nagasena then answers akin to 'didn't i already answer your question?' and proceeds to give a simile of a man having been rewarded for his service saying that he had received nothing.

What we can infer from this Channasuttam, among other things, is that there is a case where one can lay down the body blamelessly, that is if one is an Arahant.

This is most important because of this line i the suttapitaka

Five impossibles, to wit, for an Arahant intentionally to take life... DN33: Great Recital

If we superimpose this statement with there being a possibility to lay down the body blamelessly then it is clear that suicide is not the same as killing another being.

As to whether a Sotapanna can do it, there is nothing in the Canon to suggest that that they can't as far as i know.

There is a statement in the commentary to Dhammapada saying that "Sotapannas do not kill, they don't want others to get killed" but i already showed that this would not encompass suicide.

Therefore it follows that an arahant can do, ordinary person can do and as to the stream-enterer, the reasonable assumption is that it is possible, that it can happen because it has not been proclaimed to be a disqualification.

To claim otherwise would require evidence and there is none afaik.

It is unlikely the monk named Ñāṇavīra Thera was a stream-enterer because his notes on Dependent Origination are very confusing despite some of his ideas being valid (such as "my birth" & "my death" for jati-marana); however the valid ideas were based on sutta study. In other words, it appears his ideas about Dependent Origination came from study rather than from realisation because if there was genuine realisation he would have explained Dependent Origination correctly, which he did not.

As for suicide, yes, a stream-enterer can terminate life with a liberated mind if living becomes pointless & they do not crave another life; which appeared did not occur with Ñāṇavīra. It seems Ñāṇavīra craved for another life therefore his suicide was blameworthy (per MN 144). It seems Ñāṇavīra did not pass away with a void mind of sunnata but with the self-view of: "I am a stream-enterer & I have seven more lifetimes until I attain Nibbana".

The realisation of a stream-enterer is explained very clearly in many suttas (SN 56.11; MN 56; etc), namely: "All that is subject to arising is subject to cessation". Ñāṇavīra appeared to not terminate life with this realization but, instead, with the contrary idea that: "I am a stream-enterer subject to re-arising".

I do not find any merit in discussing suicide because in my mind it is not on the path. It is a dead end street. It is like jumping off the train - you don't get to your destination. If someone is a stream enterer, they might still get stuck in the folly of the human mind. Taking one's physical life is a sign that you take the personal self too seriously and that you are under the illusion it is something you must deal with and can deal with, and that it is something you may end. The only way to end the suffering is to stop kowtowing to the personal self and open to the buddha awakening. In this awakening there is no birth, no life, no death. If this is awakening, should we be talking about suicide at all? I think not, unless someone is disturbed and contemplating that fateful error. It is seeds of karma to do harm to any sentient being including oneself. There is no excuse - one who chooses that destiny must deal with the seeds and outcome they choose by default.