What did Native Americans know, or speculate, about the Old world?
Upvote:-2
They (i.e. those who understood Astronomy) certainly knew that something existed elsewhere, but it is doubtfull that they knew what.
The same is true for Europe. By the time of Columbus, they had a good idea how far away the Asian coastline was, but knew nothing about what was in between.
The combined effect of these mistakes was that Columbus estimated the distance to Japan to be only about 5,000 km (or only to the eastern edge of the Caribbean) while the true figure is about 20,000 km. The Spanish scholars may not have known the exact distance to the east coast of Asia, but they believed that it was significantly further than Columbus's projection; and this was the basis of the criticism in Spain and Portugal, whether academic or among mariners, of the proposed voyage.
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The ships barely reached the eastern Caribbean islands. Already the crews were mutinous, not because of some fear of "sailing off the edge", but because they were running out of food and water with no chance of any new supplies within sailing distance.
Columbus problem was that he used an Italian/Roman Mile (1481.76 meters) instead of the Arabic mile (1,972 meters) for the 56⅔ miles per degree calculation.
Another estimate given by his [Caliph Al-Ma'mun] astronomers was 56⅔ Arabic miles (111.8 km per degree), which corresponds to a circumference of 40,248 km, very close to the current values of 111.3 km per degree and 40,068 km circumference, respectively.
Al-Farghani and the “Short Degree"
It is assumed that the legal cubit (49.8 centimeters) was used since it was most commonly used unit during al-Farghani's lifetime.
- Arab mile = 4000 cubits
- black cubit: 54.04 cm
- 2161.60 m
- 122.4906666667 Kilometer = 56⅔ = 1 Degree
- 44096.64 km = 360 Degrees
- 122.4906666667 Kilometer = 56⅔ = 1 Degree
- 2161.60 m
- surveying cubit: 48.25
- 1930.00 m
- 109.3666666667 Kilometer = 56⅔ = 1 Degree
- 39372 km = 360 Degrees
- 109.3666666667 Kilometer = 56⅔ = 1 Degree
- 1930.00 m
- legal cubit: 49.80
- 1992.00 m
- 112.88 Kilometer = 56⅔ = 1 Degree
- 40636.8 km = 360 Degrees
- 112.88 Kilometer = 56⅔ = 1 Degree
- 1992.00 m
- black cubit: 54.04 cm
- circumference: 40075.017 km
- 1 Degree: 111.3194916667
Al-Farghani and the “Short Degree”
But we know from other sources that the black cubit had not yet been introduced during the reign of al-Ma'mun, when the length of a degree was measured on the plain of Sinjar. So in spite of the terminology al-Farghani uses, his "black cubit" must in fact refer to either the "surveying cubit" of 48.25 centimeters, or to the legal cubit of 49.8 centimeters. The latter is the more likely, since we know that it was the most commonly used unit during al-Farghani's lifetime.
| type | meters | Arabic miles | Roman miles |
|---|---|---|---|
| Arabic | 1992.00 | 4000 legal cubits (each 0.498 km) |
1.3443472627 |
| Roman | 1481.76 | 0.7438554217 | Nippur cupit=518.616 mm Foot=4/7 Nippur cupit (296.352 mm) Roman mile=5000 Feet Roman cubit=6/7 Nippur cupit (444.528 mm) |
Sources:
- Ancient Roman units of measurement - Wikipedia
- Die Römischen Maße und Gewichte
- Verbreitung des römischen/attischen Fußes, Seite von Rolf C. A. Rottländer
- Römische Längenmaße – PlusPedia
Seit einigen Jahren bevorzugen viele Spezialisten jetzt einen arbiträr festgelegten Definitionswert für das Nippur Ellenmaß: 518 616 µm [518.616 mm].
For some years now, many specialists have preferred an arbitrarily defined definition value for the Nippur yardstick [cubits]: 518,616 µm [518,616 mm].
- Italian units of measurement - Wikipedia
- Die Römischen Maße und Gewichte
- Mile - Wikipedia
Upvote:9
How would you know this? For most tribes, being illiterate and having no writings, the only way would be to ask them, and of course by that time they would know about you, so you have spoiled the experiment, so to speak.
That said, the Mayans did have codices that recorded their myths and fables, notably the Popul Vuh, sometimes called "The Dawn of Life", in which their civilization was created by gods that came from the east over the sea. So, the Mayans at least definitely believed in a world beyond the sea, but this was a mythological belief, not firm knowledge.
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