Was Christ the man created?
score:13
The problem that you run into is John 1 - in which it says of Jesus, that by him all things were made, and there is nothing that was made that He didn't make. This is why the Nicene Creed is so careful to say he was begotten not made. If God the Father made Jesus, then John made a boo-boo.
The incarnation, on the other hand, is merely putting flesh to that which already existed, namely the spirit of Christ in the man Jesus. The physical manifestation is well known to anyone who has watched a science film on conception.
In other words, the spirit is eternal, but the flesh is temporary, and created.
The fun part, however, is that since it is something made, it means that God the Son got to make his own body. (Reminds me of an episode of ST:TNG called The Offspring, in which Lt. Cmdr. Data's daughter gets to choose her form) I find it interesting that He chose to be so normal and plain- but that's who our God is- he wants so desperately to be with us, that he chooses to be just like us.
The debated part of the incarnation is the nature of the Spirit/Soul/whatever of that flesh in relationship to the pre-existant Spirit of God the Son. The relationship of that spirit of God to the flesh of that baby born is the root of most Christological heresies like Nestorianism, Apollinarianism, and Monophysitism. Here's the "problem" of each:
Apollinarism: Says that the flesh that was created had no mind of its own. The problem with this idea is that God was never actually a man. In its most extreme form docetism Jesus only appeared to be human, and was in fact, merely a 'phantasm' of the flesh - a solid spirit that had no human substance whatsoever. That basically denies the incarnation altogether.
Nestorianism: Says that the flesh was just a normal guy whom God the Son indwelt. In this idea, Jesus was schizophrenic, having two distinct personalities in one body.
Monophysitism: Says that there was only one nature, in that the human nature was so dissolved in the divine that it basically ceased to exist. Of the "heresies" listed, this is probably the closest to Orthodoxy, but fails insofar as it denies the existence of a human will.
The orthodox position is the so called hypostatic union. It says that Jesus was fully God and fully man. (Hey, Jesus is just 200% that's all!) It's a bit tricky, but the basic idea is to ensure that any Christology recognizes that Jesus was fully able to fully be both things to fully accomplish what he was sent to do.
Upvote:-1
Traditions can be good or not so good. When ideas are reduced to mantras people stop thinking. It is acceptable to say things in a way that gets people thinking rather than labeling.
The Unbegotten Only Son made his own DNA from materials he himself created and it was planted in Mary by the Holy Ghost where he became the Only Begotten Son, who died on the cross becoming the Usurping Second Son (second Adam).
The idea is important, not the specific formulation of the idea.
Upvote:0
Was Christ the man created? Is it correct/acceptable in such a tradition to refer to the body of this incarnation as being created?
It's perfectly Orthodox to say that Christ the man is a creature. Because it's referring to one of His two natures, that's what incarnation about. Unless God became man we wouldn't be able to become deified, theosis. We're created, if He is not becoming us there is no Gospel.
For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.
St. Athanasius, On Incarnation, 54:3, PG 25:192B.
This is the Good News that God whose beginning is not contingent voluntarily condescend to become a human being for us and our salvation. On this is rested the foundation of God's covenant that even though He is in the form of Creator He chooses to be found in the lowest form of a creature. This is the love of God manifested.
A new and unheard of Covenant: God Who is and was, is made a creature.
Pope St. Leo the Great, Sermon XII, On Nativity.
If Christ the man is a creature why Nicene council condemned Arius for calling Him the first creation? Because Arius confused the person of the Logos who is a divine person, begotten not made, with the humanity which He assumed for our salvation. It's the later which we refer to as a creature not the former. A divine person is not a creature, but the humanity which He assumed is a part of creation.
Christ who God and man, is called uncreated and created, impassible and passible.
St. John of Damascus, On the Orthodox Faith, 3:4.
God the Word assumed not only a human body but also a human soul with rational mind. He is inside out identical with us in His humanity. He has a fallen flesh with all of its infirmities, a fallen soul with its psychological defect, and more importantly a fallen rational mind damaged by the fall. So that He can healed our fallen humanity and deified it completely. Unless the Logos assumed a fallen humanity tampered with its weakness and mortality from the Theotokos then there is no salvation. This is possible in Catholic and Orthodox Christology because original sin has nothing to do with guilt. Incarnation is the summit of all mysteries.
What has not been assumed has not been healed
St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Epistle 101:32.
Upvote:0
As asked this appears to be a "truth question" rather than a creedal one so I will attempt to answer from a scriptural rather than creedal perspective.
The idea that Jesus created his own body is explicitly denied in Hebrews:
[Heb 10:5 ESV] (5) Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;
To make this reproof of creedalism even more explicit is the fact that his body was defective when it emerged from the seed of David because the same verse says that God "repaired" the body for Christ:
[Heb 10:5 MGNT] (5) διὸ εἰσερχόμενος εἰς τὸν κόσμον λέγει θυσίαν καὶ προσφορὰν οὐκ ἠθέλησας σῶμα δὲ κατηρτίσω μοι
Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 2675: καταρτίζω καταρτίζω; future καταρτίσω (1 Peter 5:10 L T Tr WH (Buttmann, 31 (32); but Rec. καταρτίσαι, 1 aorist optative 3 person singular)); 1 aorist infinitive καταρτίσαι; passive, present καταρτίζομαι; perfect κατήρτισμαι; 1 aorist middle 2 person singular κατηρτίσω; properly, "to render ἄρτιος, i. e. fit, sound, complete" (see κατά, III. 2); hence, a. to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair: τά δίκτυα, Matthew 4:21; Mark 1:19 (others reference these examples to next entry); equivalent to to complete, τά ὑστερήματα, 1 Thessalonians 3:10. b. to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust: τούς αἰῶνας, the worlds, passive Hebrews 11:3 (so, for הֵכִין, ἥλιον, Psalm 73:16 (Ps. 74:16); σελήνην, Psalm 88:38 (Ps. 89:38)); σκεύη κατηρτισμένη εἰς ἀπώλειαν, of men whose souls God has so constituted that they cannot escape destruction (but see Meyer (edited by Weiss) in the place cited), Romans 9:22 (πλοῖα, Polybius 5, 46, 10, and the like); of the mind: κατηρτισμένος ὡς etc. so instructed, equipped, as etc. (cf. Buttmann,
[Jer 33:22 KJV] (22) As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
[Jhn 7:42 KJV] (42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
[Rom 1:3 KJV] (3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[Luk 1:35 KJV] (35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy [IE: "repaired"] thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Of course, those who are beholden to Catholic creeds are bound to a different viewpoint.
Upvote:2
It is obvious that Jesus' body was created, or perhaps a better word is, "made." I choose to use the verb "create" with the subject "God" alone. We humans cannot create anything. We can make many things.
In the beginning, God created all things, that is, all matter in the universe. From that existing matter is made all things that exist today. I can make a house out of wood, but I did not create the house, nor did I create the wood.
Now, was Jesus' body made? Sure. Just like my body, and just like your body, via the process of conception.
May I recommend for you the discourse of Thomas Aquinas on the subject?
Upvote:6
In historical Christian belief (of almost any type), it would be considered heresy to say that God the Son was created.
You can use a neat term here "nicene christianity".
Regarding your question - Christ has a complete human nature (human body and human soul) and this nature is created. Christ has accepted our nature with all sinless weaknesses of this nature. We believe this nature is real (unline doketists) and complete (unlike apolinarists). So it's right to say that Christ's body is created.
However as it is stated in the subject "Christ the man" suggests, that there are two separate Christs: "Christ the God" and "Christ the man". This would be nestorian teaching. So rather say "human nature of Christ" than "Christ the man".
More post
- 📝 What is the Church attitude to the belief that Jesus had a biological father?
- 📝 Are there any denominations that do not require pastors to be college educated?
- 📝 Are (or should be) the resolutions of the SDA General Conference public?
- 📝 What is the biblical basis for the JW belief that only 144,000 go to heaven?
- 📝 According to Luther, does guilt consciousness or guilt feeling comes from Satan?
- 📝 How does "believe that you have received it" practice in the Christian life?
- 📝 What is the term in spiritual theology to denote the aspect that increases within a believer as God carries his work to completion (Phil 1:6)?
- 📝 What is the “something greater than Solomon” in Matthew 12?
- 📝 Why do Jehovah's Witnesses have a problem with my relationship with one of their members?
- 📝 What is the argument for papal succession?
- 📝 Is it permissible for a Catholic to believe in Miaphysitism?
- 📝 A more literal Bible translation than WEB
- 📝 Is there any evidence that Jesus had no children?
- 📝 Do Proverbs and Ecclesiastes have polar opposite views of wisdom?
- 📝 Were the early Christians known by any other name?
- 📝 Did Jonah think that God exists only in Israel?
- 📝 Is there a rule, on how many Patron Saints a Catholic can have?
- 📝 Confusing argument from GotQuestion (Calvinist) about 24 Elders
- 📝 What denominations apply the doctrine Nuda Scriptura?
- 📝 Who can move Easter celebrations in the Orthodox Churches?
- 📝 Can Catholics receive a canonically valid marriage after civil elopement?
- 📝 How do I have self confidence, self esteem and work hard if I am a true Christian?
- 📝 Is it true the term 'pontifex maximus' was the name of the high priest of the Roman Cult of Emperor Worship, before being adopted by the Pope?
- 📝 How do Christians discern genuine spiritual experiences from hallucinations or other mundane psychological phenomena?
- 📝 What denomination uses church pews that face each other?
- 📝 Does the "Oh My Jesus" prayer support universalist beliefs among Roman Catholics?
- 📝 Does Christianity solve personal problems?
- 📝 What is the biblical basis for restitution?
- 📝 According to Catholicism, why is the Holy Spirit never spoken of as the Father of Jesus?
- 📝 Catholic Communion under One Kind
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 Was Christ the man created?
- 📝 According to LDS teaching, was Adam the first man created in all the worlds or just this one?
- 📝 How was Jesus the Seed of David if Jesus is God who created Man (Adam), and David is the seed of Adam?
- 📝 Was anyone making a theological point by changing the ending of Jesus Christ Superstar?
- 📝 How can John the Baptist be the greatest man born of woman, when Jesus was also born of woman?
- 📝 According to the LDS church, why was Jesus Christ born when he was born?
- 📝 Was the fall of man inevitable?
- 📝 What is the Biblical basis for Jesus Christ being a created being according to Jehovah’s Witnesses?
- 📝 What does Mormonism have to offer in regards to salvation through Jesus Christ that was not already taught in the New Testament?
- 📝 What is the reasoning behind the belief that Eve was NOT created on the sixth day?
- 📝 What is the basis for the belief that Eve was created on the sixth day, like Adam?
- 📝 Somebody was born into a culture that has no knowledge of the Christ - could he still "find him"?
- 📝 Was Jesus Christ crucified on the 14th of Nisan (April 3, 33) or the 15th (April 4, 33)?
- 📝 Why was the first man called Adam?
- 📝 Was there a period in the history when all who believed in Christ allowed infant baptism?
- 📝 When God said to man that if he sinned he would die, was he speaking of death of the human body or death of the Soul, or the Spirit?
- 📝 When Christ was pierced with the spear, why did water come out?
- 📝 LDS Church view: was the earth and all life on it created in six 24-hour days?
- 📝 When was the tripartite (body, soul, and spirit) view of man officially rejected by a church council?
- 📝 According to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was Jesus Christ ordained to the Priesthood?
- 📝 Was it on the basis of the devastation of the flood that man was allowed animal flesh?
- 📝 Jehovah's Witnesses teach Jesus was created and he's "a god" according to John 1:1 in their NWT. Yet the Bible teaches all men are sinners?
- 📝 Do we know which side of Christ was pierced by the Roman soldier during His Passion?
- 📝 Are the early followers of Christ considered Christians or Jews in today's context? If not, when was the religion created?
- 📝 The New Testament teaches that Christ was baptized to “fulfill all righteousness” (Matthew 3:14–15)--what does this mean?
- 📝 What is the basis for saying that Adam was created without sin?
- 📝 What is the biblical basis for believing that Christ is the man upon the throne from Ezekiel 1:26?
- 📝 According to the Trinity doctrine was the Son created by the Father?
- 📝 How do those who believe that Jesus is a created being understand the verses which say everything that was created was created by him?
- 📝 How does the Mormon Church reconcile the following claim with the Bible? "The Church of Jesus Christ was well established in the time of Adam."