How do deniers of the personal pre-incarnate existence of the Son of God interpret John 3:31-32?
Upvote:1
The argument seems to be based on grammar of the target translation language, not on that of the source text. The original Greek of John 3 does not echo this "two distinct He" mentioned in the question:
In all cases the Greek Ὁ is the same inflection: "he" is not represented by a 3rd person singular pronoun, but by first person singular nominative (translated as "the one").
Nor does John 8:23:
Where ἐγὼ in both cases is also the same inflection.
If this would be referring to two distinctive "me" or "he", one would expect one (the one above) to be in Nominative and the second (the testifier) in either Accusative or Dative case, depending on whether the association is meant to be direct or indirect respectively, if the argument is to be inferred into the original Greek.
Upvote:1
[First] In the very direct comparison of John 3:31-32, How is it that 3rd person singular can refer to person-hood in "he who is from the earth" but not person-hood in "he who is from above"?
In the Greek text, "he who is from above" is not expressed with the Indicative Present (as in English) but with the Present Participle (ho anothen erchōmenos), something like "the one coming from above". Similarly, "he who is from the earth" is, literally, "the one being from the earth" (ho ōn ek tēs gēs). The real question is not about grammar, but about meaning: what does "coming from above", referred to Jesus, mean? Jesus comes from above because ... he is the incarnation of God's eternal logos.
Secondarily, How can "he from above" have seen and heard that which "he" later testifies if "he" had no person-hood prior to earthly existence? Can a plan see, hear, and remember in order to later testify?
I surmise that Jesus, "the one coming from above" has "seen and heard" what he testifies to because God, the Father Almighty, his Father, has disclosed it to him.
More post
- 📝 What is the Catholic Church's explanation of its listing of the Ten Commandments?
- 📝 Why did punishment differ in Leviticus 20:13 and 1 Kings 15:11-12?
- 📝 Why do Christians missionary think that quran 5:17 "Surely those have disbelieved who said God is the Christ" is a distortion of their belief!
- 📝 Does the Orthodox Church accept the Athanasian Creed?
- 📝 Fully black mozzettas?
- 📝 How does the Anglican Church defend its legitimacy due to the circumstances of its founding?
- 📝 What does it mean to say "the [Holy] Spirit shall depart"?
- 📝 What is the source of the belief that the deceased become angels?
- 📝 Books on Patristics
- 📝 How do Reformed Protestants interpret Matthew 18:18?
- 📝 Were any prophets sent to the Canaanites before Jewish immigration?
- 📝 Obligation to get married with partner?
- 📝 How old will we be in heaven?
- 📝 Which apostles quote Jesus?
- 📝 Assumption of Mary (Salvific issue) Catholic
- 📝 What purpose does the Old Testament have today?
- 📝 On what basis do Christians sometimes claim to know what God's intentions are?
- 📝 When did Joseph Smith first understand the doctrine of eternal progression?
- 📝 When scripture says, God "knows all things", does that include every action and decision every human will choose to make in the future?
- 📝 What is the purpose and basis of the stigmata?
- 📝 In Rev 9:4 What grass was left for them to not hurt?
- 📝 What was the point of the third article of Remonstrance?
- 📝 Do Christians regard speaking in tongues as necessary?
- 📝 What does The Father do?
- 📝 is there a magnitude to sin?
- 📝 What is according to the RCC the creation story in Genesis?
- 📝 Was Jesus The Lamb of God or the High Priest (that offers the lamb as a sacriffice)?
- 📝 What role does the New Covenant play in Reformed Theology?
- 📝 When did the Latin Catholic Church begin to generally require fasting only one hour prior to the Eucharist?
- 📝 What rules does the Catholic Church have for venerating crosses/crucifixes on Good Friday?
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 How do deniers of the personal pre-incarnate existence of the Son of God interpret John 3:31-32?
- 📝 How do deniers of Jesus preincarnate existence handle all the personal pronouns in John 1, particularly verse10?
- 📝 HOW does the existence of the Universe make those who do not worship God to be "without excuse"?
- 📝 How do Christians understand the existence of God in relation to the scientific concept of energy?
- 📝 How do those who believe the Son is not Almighty God interpret Revelation 2:23?
- 📝 How is the matter of why the Son of God needed to be sacrificed explained in the Roman Catholic Church?
- 📝 How do Biblical Unitarians respond to translations of Hebrews 1:8 which have God calling the Son 'God'?
- 📝 How did Nathanael see the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man?
- 📝 How is God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit the same?
- 📝 How can the Son not know what the Father knows?
- 📝 How do Christians understand the omniscience of God in relation to the Uncertainty Principle?
- 📝 If God set the maximum age to 120, then how could Jacob be 130 years old?
- 📝 How can a loving God make a deal with the devil?
- 📝 According to believers in the inexorable damnation of the unreached, how is God not unfair for letting someone be born in unreachable conditions?
- 📝 If the Holy Spirit is God, and God can not be in the presence of sin, then how can the Holy Spirit dwell in me a sinner?
- 📝 How could the Egyptian magicians do what God did through Moses?
- 📝 How is the belief that Christians are both adopted and begotten sons of God reconciled?
- 📝 Why is the Son of God called the Eternal Father in the book of Alma?
- 📝 Did Jesus know from the outset that He was the Son of God or did Mary tell Him?
- 📝 How has God destroyed the wisdom of the wise?
- 📝 How do protestants understand Jesus' statement that unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man we will have no life?
- 📝 Why does Jesus have to be fully God and fully man? Is it not sufficient to be the son of God and fully man?
- 📝 How does our work on this earth transfer into the new earth when God returns?
- 📝 How do Leslie Weatherhead's views on the will of God compare to contemporary Baptist thought?
- 📝 Why was God so specific about how to make the Tabernacle?
- 📝 How do the Personal Ordinariates differ from Anglicanism?
- 📝 What traditions believe that a woman's relationship with God must go through some man and how do they support it from the Bible?
- 📝 Does God want things? What are some of the things He wants, and how did we find out?
- 📝 How was Judas Iscariot, as the son of perdition, able to work miracles and cast out demons?
- 📝 How does OEC explain the existence of pre-fall death?