To hell with metta - how to understand AN4.125?

Upvote:0

A person has five spiritual faculties

  1. Judgement/discernment/wisdom
  2. Energy/persistence/striving/effort
  3. Concentration
  4. Faith/conviction
  5. Mindfulness

All beings have these faculties and they are in a constant flux as to their level of development.

When a person develops thoughts of good-will & fully penetrates that theme with discernment, his wisdom faculty will in that be brought to consummation and the mind will be inclined to extinguishment.

A person might develop the faculties to a high level and be born again a Deva but if the development isn't upheld & concluded there then always remains a potential to fall away due a lack of development and an exhaustion of merit that supported the favorable birth.

The human state is attained by good conduct and people fall away from that state due to lack a of it. The Brahma state is attained by good conduct and Brahma fall away from that state due to a lack of it.

Wrong view is that which leads to a bad rebirth. One can do a lot of good for wrong reasons and if these reasons are far enough from the truth then one's birth will be far away and in a bad destination when the immediate merit of past actions is exhausted.

Upvote:1

Uncountable karma in even a minute, unstoppable and waiting forever for effecting as the resultant. Even they vanished immediately when arising. Their effects still possible to effect in the future proper situation.

In the dependent origination, there are uncountable past lives' intentions, Sangkhara, which still waiting to give their resultants.

There are more than trillion intentions per sec arising&vanishing now. There are 2 kinds of intentions, sleeping intentions and awaking intentions.

There are 10-17 times, or uncountable for the absorbing person, of awaking intentions arising and vanishing rapidly, then sleep a bit then awaking intentions arise again, looping entire life.

These 10-17 times of awaking intentions included 4-7 karma-intentions, PunnaAbihsangkhara, ApunnaBhisankha, AnanjaAbhisankhara.

In that 7 karma-intentions, 1st time will give resultant this life, 7th will give resultant next life. The 2nd to 6th time will give resultants beginning from the 3rd life after next life or waiting until they gave resultants already, or the death of Arahanta. (The arising karma already vanished, but the vanished karma are able to give the resultants even 10000000000th life later).

Uncountable karma in even a minute, unstoppable and waiting forever for effecting as the resultant.

So, even one enlightened as Arahanta, but the bad karma-intentions still able to give the bad resultant to that one.

However, the Arahanta doesn't care of the suffering feeling. And the most important point "Arahanta is going not to born by any karma-intentions anymore.

That's why the ordinary people who achieved the absorption in metta, still able to born in hell after the heaven life.

And that's why even the very good people should practice follow the Buddha. The only way to breakout of suffering is the professional enlightenment about 4 noble truth only.

Upvote:1

Practicing metta correctly leads to rebirth in brahma realm, not to hell. What propels that brahma realm being to hell and animal realm after death, is not the practice of metta, but their previous karma. The sutta is not describing an absolute rule, it's just citing one possibility. For example, other suttas show beings who perform enormous meritorious karma have successive rebirths in many devas realms consecutively. The point of this sutta, is to show that for a skilled disciple of a buddha who is reborn in the Brahma realm, they are very likely to follow up that life with final nirvana at death, whereas a non Buddhist would be propelled to a future rebirth based on their accumulated past karmas, which is most likely to be a step down in rank (human, animals, hell, etc.) after their wholesome karma that led to that Brahma realm rebirth has been exhausted and not replenished with new wholesome karma.

The important general issue you're addressing, namely whether the pali source is actually this vague or imprecise in explanation of Dharma, is unfortunately fairly common. That is, the suttas being memorized teachings in an oral traditions, tend to be terse and not explicit and clear in all its implications when read in isolation. The full meaning has to be drawn out from reading many suttas in the entire collection and connecting the dots.

Upvote:1

The key sentence in the section you shared is...

This is the difference between an educated noble disciple and an uneducated ordinary person, that is, when there is a place of rebirth.

The teaching gives a wider context surrounding puthujjana and aryas and what can be expected from the practice of metta regarding those two types of individuals.

The contention you seem to have is regarding the puthujjana's destination, having diligently practised metta throughout their entire life.

Quite simply, regardless of what a puthujjana practices or how diligently they practice, they are subject to the fortitude of samsara, subject to births in all their modalities, and therefore, subject to the experience of further pleasures and further suffering. One might say they arc up and down and hither and yon, through the hardened density of the apayas, and perhaps through other, more pleasurable abodes in accordance with their karma. This is because they have not realized a fruition.

In Theravada, the first fruition is stream-entry. Having realized the drawbacks that occur from identifying with the body, the mind then inclines towards practice. One can intuit the teachings with ease and relay those teachings to others (bodhicitta). More importantly, you leave the state of puthujjana and become an arya. So stream-entry is a big deal.

An arya has then become informed, educated, instructed, clued-up, smart. Like Venerable Kondanna, he becomes the one who knows. This leads the arya to births that were previously beyond his reach. Favourable births that lead him to liberation.

I don't know the background to this sutta, but it looks like the teaching was given to rouse the energy of simple-minded puthujjana's who could not fully grasp teachings that required deeper levels of discernment.

Upvote:2

the birth in brahma realm is the result of the metta meditation. being there exhausts their positive force and since very typically they are not inclined to practice while there. then their circumstances are ripe for them to easily be swept up by their remaining unskilful tendencies and to which they have become deeply unaccustomed to ie. theyre easy prey due to unfamiliarity with them.

most of us have made no actual lasting progress on selflessness and so merit leaves us with an impression of being enduring much like how young humans are fearless and barely have concepts of being fragile or vulnerable, those in the upper realms often dont even have thoughts that its possible that they can die

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