Were the Waldensians like a Protestant Church in the Middle Ages?
score:3
Most information about the doctrine of first valdensians that survived till today is contained in the inquisition protocols. According to "New Advent":
...denial of purgatory, and of indulgences and prayers for the dead. They denounced all lying as a grievous sin, refused to take oaths and considered the shedding of human blood unlawful. They consequently condemned war and the infliction of the death penalty.
are among their doctrines that contradicted roman catholic faith, so I think, that yes, they can be view as sui specie 'protoprotestants'.
Contemporary Waldenses were 'assimilated' into reformation.
Upvote:3
Well. Some of what they said makes sense from a Protestant point of view, but not all. The biggest doctrinal "Holy cow I can't believe they said that," is
Holding that the validity of the sacraments depends on the worthiness of the minister (from Catholic Encyclopedia)
This would mean that if your local pastor was shacking up with someone, any baptism they performed would come into doubt. That goes against Augustine's teachings and all (I believe) of the thoughts of the first Reformers.
The Catholic Encyclopedia also implies that they borrowed from the Cathars, which would have put them clearly within the realm of "heretic."
In this book, one curious point is their outright rejection of asceticism. This, of course, goes directly against Christ's statement that certain demons could only be removed by "prayer and fasting" and Paul's allusion in 1 Cor. 9:27 (he speaks of "beating his body.")
There are some things listed here which are concerning (though it is hard to tell which is Cathar/Albigenses and what is Waldenses. Of course, they are interbred). Most importantly:
- Their second error is that all vices and sins are in the church, and that they alone live righteously. (they're sinless?)
- That we are not to obey Prelates; but only God. (Prelates are to be followed according to Peter)
- That the clergy ought not to have possessions (Ask your pastor if he agrees that this one isn't heresy)
- This paragraph just deserves a church-lady, "Well, isn't that special":
Also, they condemn the sacrament of Marriage, saying that married persons sin mortally if they come together without the hope of offspring [this is different from RCC which teaches that there can be no artificial impediment to having children]-also, they disregard compaternity-also, they despise the degrees of affinity, carnal and spiritual, and the impediments of Orders, and of public decency, and of ecclesiastical prohibitions-also, they say that a woman after child-bearing does not require benediction, or introduction-also, they say that the church has erred in prohibiting the marriage of the Clergy, while even those of the East mary - also, they say that the continent do not sin in kisses and embraces.
A bit of a side note: it seems that the first and foremost reason they were condemned was that they did not submit to the local authorities. They were instructed to visit with the bishop (who, at that time, was a lord) and they refused. When this obstinacy continued they were de facto criminals endorsing criminality (if you are summoned to court, you go to court. God does not give us free passes to get out of traffic tickets). Once they were condemned for this behavior by the local synod of bishops (a synod represents a small geographic area), their doctrines started to diverge from Catholic (and I would argue eventually even what could be passed as Christian) thought.
More post
- 📝 Are we called to love and pray for the demons and Satan?
- 📝 Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe the 144 000 are from Israel?
- 📝 Is an adulterous priest still a priest?
- 📝 Why do Trinitarians call the Father, the Father?
- 📝 Was tithing 10% required or encouraged by the early church?
- 📝 Do JWs have vestments, clothing, or "sacred" or symbolic objects that are used for any particular occasion or position?
- 📝 What is the "Leviathan" mentioned in Job?
- 📝 The Curé of Ars on Dancing
- 📝 What are the most widely used simple-English bible translations in mainstream protestant churches?
- 📝 How did the author of Jonah know about this conversation?
- 📝 How can God be loving and just whilest creating people for His wrath? I cannot wrap my head around Calvinism!
- 📝 How do Protestants understand the blessedness of Mary in Luke 1:48?
- 📝 What roles do faith and works play in the LDS/Mormon understanding of salvation?
- 📝 What is the origin of praying hands folded?
- 📝 Does Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:14 contradict Jesus in Mark 2:17?
- 📝 Are sins forgiven without a payment in Matthew 9:1-7?
- 📝 2 Corinthians 5:10 addresses the Judgment Seat of Christ. What is the result of the individuals' judgment?
- 📝 Did Zachariah ask for a son to God?
- 📝 Were the Jews right in accusing Jesus of claiming to be God?
- 📝 What are the arguments for believing Jewish men would marry Temple Virgins who had taken vows of chastity?
- 📝 What doctrine of the Catholic Church covers the commandment, "Thou shall not commit adultery."?
- 📝 What does being Born Again mean per Catholic teaching?
- 📝 What is the biblical basis for Jesus being able to redeem the Jewish people in his second coming?
- 📝 Did the LDS ever recognize non-LDS polygamous marriages?
- 📝 What evidence does the LDS Church offer regarding claims of degradation of Biblical texts?
- 📝 Did adding the Feast of Sts. Mary, Martha and Lazarus clear up anything about the identity of Mary?
- 📝 Religious justification for creating a large angry scene with the ostensible purpose of making people not gay
- 📝 According to Trinitarians, who is seated on the Throne and who takes His scroll from His right hand, in Rev 4 and 5?
- 📝 What kind of ecclesiastical structure did Ignatius of Antioch discuss in his epistles?
- 📝 Attending two different churches
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 Were the Waldensians like a Protestant Church in the Middle Ages?
- 📝 Are there any major Protestant denominations that meet every day and are together all the time like the early church was?
- 📝 Who were the recepients of Christian monumental sculptures in the early middle ages (10th and 11th century)?
- 📝 If both the Orthodox and Catholic Church affirm salvation by grace through faith, why did the Protestant Reformation happen?
- 📝 Would the story of Jesus hold more significance if he were a man like us?
- 📝 What were the beliefs, teachings, and practices of the church regarding slavery in the New World?
- 📝 Besides Paul, were there any other enemies of the early church who converted to Christianity?
- 📝 What were the major disagreements between Erasmus and Luther during the Protestant Reformation?
- 📝 Did the disagreement between the Catholic Church and Protestant Church on the issue of salvation by grace alone end in 1999?
- 📝 Were any of the early church leaders Gentile converts to Christianity?
- 📝 Since when did the Catholic church accept Protestant baptism, and what was the original rationale for accepting?
- 📝 How were women to serve the church according to the Apostolic Fathers?
- 📝 How does the view of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints about Jesus Christ differ from Protestant Trinitarian Christology?
- 📝 When were the Fasting Patterns of the Eastern Orthodox Church Established?
- 📝 Why are the men of Genesis so old? Were the dating systems just different? Are all of these old ages supposed to have symbolic meaning?
- 📝 Were there any Roman Catholic Church martyrs in the 10–15th centuries?
- 📝 How does the LDS Church handle verses that imply there is no one like God?
- 📝 On what grounds does the Catholic church reject sacraments of protestant denominations?
- 📝 What is an open atheist's fate in the Middle Ages in Christian Europe?
- 📝 Are there books that are included in the Protestant Bible that were disputed as canonical?
- 📝 Which Protestant denominations support the position that Peter is the rock that Jesus builds his church upon?
- 📝 Why does the Catholic Church consider protestant baptisms valid sacraments, but not protestant marriages?
- 📝 What Sunday services were held in a tyical English parish church before the Reformation?
- 📝 Can a practicing Catholic who joined a Protestant church still receive communion in the Catholic church?
- 📝 Did any of the Church Fathers think the current-day Gospels were not inspired?
- 📝 Minimum age of marriage in the Catholic Church through the ages
- 📝 What does a returning Catholic who contracted marriage in a Protestant church need to do when the spouse wants to remain Protestant?
- 📝 Do any Protestant groups teach that Paul founded the Church and not Peter?
- 📝 Could a lowborn during the middle ages read the bible?
- 📝 Who were the main Protestant precursors?