Religious justification for creating a large angry scene with the ostensible purpose of making people not gay

score:19

Accepted answer

The motivations for protests against h*m*sexuality differ based on the group, and as such the answers must be tailored to the groups. It should also be mentioned that overall (meaning as a percentage) relatively few Christians tend to take part in these protests, for precisely the reason you state.

Furthermore, there are several Christian denominations that actively support h*m*sexuality. The Metropolitan Community Church, for example, is a denomination that is in many ways founded on the idea idea of being gay positive. Other denominations, such as the more liberal parts of the Anglican Communion (i.e. the Episcopal Church in the US) actively support and encourage the lifestyle, although this splits the church.

Because I do not know what group is doing the protest at your school, let me break down the motivations of a few that do.

Hate (e.g. Non-Reflective Christians)

I would argue the largest body of gay-haters are, as you say, Christians who haven't read the Scripture. Remember that for many people, Christianity is a cultural thing, not a spiritual thing. Homosexuals are different (if you'll forgive the pun.) For many people, h*m*sexuality represents a threat to the established order, and if there is one thing many people hate, it is change. For centuries, many "Christians" also "knew" that white people were better than black people. There were even sermons that pointed out how Ham and Caanan (who I guess must have been black) was cursed by God (well, Noah really, but Noah speaking for God, I guess). As such, by reading verses out of context, one could conveniently ignore texts like "In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek,"... etc...

But what such hatred did do is to serve the preservation of the culture. People who don't want to change will naturally seek to preserve it by any means possible. There are "scientific," "cultural," and "historical" arguments. Note: They may even be valid. But the motivation is important, and if it is not done out of a God given spirit, despite the veneer of Christianity, it is not Christian.

It should be said here that Jesus never claimed that "preserving the culture" was his mission. His mother (in Luke 1) exults in the fact that old order will be turned upside down. He himself also says in Luke 12:

49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Fear (e.g. Westboro Baptist Church)

Fred Phelps is a minister who believes that the judgment of God is being visited on the world because of h*m*sexuals. He and his church are almost universally condemned across the Christian spectrum. Their preferred method of "being faithful to the Gospel" as they see it is to find high profile, sad events, like military funerals or the funerals of well known people, and hold up signs tht say things like "God hates f*gs." These people protest out of fear - not necessarily of h*m*sexuals per se - but out of fear that a totally just God will visit punishment on the country. They misread texts like Luke 11:31 saying that the USA is worse than Sodom, and that in the final judgement, God will visit destruction upon us all.

Again, it should be made clear that this is not biblical. As 1 John states (ch 4)

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love ... God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

In Ancient Rome, there were laws against atheism for this exact same reason - fear that a vengeful god would destroy the town for gross acts of sacriliege by any who would deny the gods' existence. Initially, because Jews and Christians only believed in one God, they were branded atheists and punished accordingly.

Love (e.g. Exodus International)

Finally, there is a Christian motivation for the sentiment, if not the tactic (sorry, protests don't change minds) of persuading people "not to be gay." From the website of Exodus International:

Many settle for so much less than what God intended. Perhaps you are one of them. But the Good News of the Gospel is we can be restored and reconciled to the MORE we were created to experience. God came to bring us life and life MORE abundantly

First off, please understand that Exodus International is extremely controversial. Many, many Christians would disavow it**, but it is worth looking at a motivation that really is grounded biblically. In their estimation, h*m*sexuality damages the individual - it is an oppression from which an individual can and should be freed. Much like an alcoholic should be freed from the prison of drink, so a h*m*sexual, in their estimation, should be freed from the "stunted growth" of a h*m*sexual lifestyle.

**Update: Recently, Exodus International has disavowed itself of any conversion therapy approaches, meaning that it does not believe that any proclivities will necessarily disappear. They continue to stand with gays, however, in resisting the impulse to act on the desires, and do so with love, compassion, and empathy.

Love, it should be remembered, does that which is in the best interests of its target. It is more than being nice. When I stop my son and my daughter from doing things that hurt them, that is love. That is the motivation out of which Exodus International operates, and I argue, the real reason why people hate it so much - because it actually is trying to be Christian. It isn't borne out of fear or hate, nor is it a caricature of faith - it is people who genuinely want to be Christian. People don't hate counterfeit three dollar bills - they hate the genuine thing.

Finally, a personal note. I was engaged in a h*m*sexual relationship for many months after college. I do not claim to speak on behalf of all gays, and I won't even argue that my experience was typical. I will tell you that for me (and I repeat FOR ME) h*m*sexuality was ultimately a trap. I liked the companionship, and the relationship was actually quite positive. For a young man to be involved in a deep romantic relationship for the first time in my life, it was highly pleasurable.

But I am glad I was not allowed to stay in that relationship. I eventually had a heterosexual relationship and even children. The joy of those relationships is, frankly, far more than I could have imagined when I was "stuck" in that h*m*sexual one. Most people go through a h*m*sexual phase, but continue to grow. I, personally, believe that phase holds many people - or at least held me - back. If I can help a person grow, I will.

Tatically speaking, a protest is not the way to do that. Jesus did command Christians to love everyone, and holding a sign is not love. I do not advocate for laws banning h*m*sexuality (whether or not marriage is state thing or a church thing is not this question in any event). And if you ask me, do I hate h*m*sexuals? I can clearly answer no. But will I do everything in my power to help someone who is, in my estimation, trapped? Love compels me to say, Of Course.

Upvote:0

Christians that go out and publicly protest/speak out against abortions, h*m*sexuality, "satanic death metal", etc. in the name of Jesus is upsetting. You are right, they aren't acting in love.. John 8:7 - Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. How can they be so merciless, disrespectful, and not understanding, and expect to win people to Christ? Even if they were being nice about it, we are commanded to live quietly and peacefully and to mind our own affairs; one reason being to gain the respect of the outside world:

1 Thess 4:10-12 (Amplified)

10 And indeed you already are [extending and displaying your love] to all the brethren throughout Macedonia. But we beseech and earnestly exhort you, brethren, that you [f]excel [in this matter] more and more,

11 To make it your ambition and definitely endeavor to live quietly and peacefully, to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we charged you,

12 So that you may bear yourselves becomingly and be correct and honorable and command the respect of the outside world, being dependent on nobody [self-supporting] and having need of nothing.

Upvote:1

As I understand the question, the speaker was a Christian speaking about his (Christian) view of h*m*sexuality, and the protesters were opposed to him and "protesting, cursing at, yelling at, etc." him, and that they "were incited to hate the individual that came" (i.e. the Christian speaker. Your question appears to be "why would the Christian come to say his piece, given that the ugly protest was the result?".

Fundamentally if a group of people descide to make an ugly protest, with yelling, cursing etc that is their decision and their issue. The speaker came to say his piece. I don't find anything in your question to indicate that he incited the protest, or spoke in an inflammatory way, or expressed hatred for h*m*sexuals (if he did, that's a whole different story).

You might argue that if "protest and hatred" are the result, the speaker shouldn't have spoken. I don't think that works either in Christian doctrine, or in the wider world. Jesus frequently said things that upset people, and provoked a violent reaction. Christians who spoke out against slavery and for the Civil Rights movement also sometimes provoked angry and violent protests (as did non-Christians). Are you arguing that they shouldn't have spoken out? If you apply this rule then it becomes really easy to prevent anyone for saying something you disagree with - you just have to get enough people to object loudly enough, and the speaker is 'morally obliged' to stop talking. Freedom of speech could be ended in a moment.

You do also say that the confrontation got ugly on both sides, and I'm not going to try to excuse that. Christians should indeed behave better. But that's really difficult to do when a roomful of people are yelling at you. And it's certainly not a reason to not speak what you believe to be the truth.

Upvote:1

Presumably Christians should follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ. And of course Jesus never said anything to make people angry at him. Everywhere he went everyone liked him and wanted to be his friend ...

Oh wait, that's didn't happen. People hated him so much that they eventually had him tortured and killed.

Indeed, he specifically warned his followers to expect the same. For example, Matthew 24:9-10, "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another." Or Luke 6:22-23, "Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets."

Yes, Jesus said that we should love our enemies. But apparently he didn't mean by this that we should always be sweet and polite to everyone. He called his opponents a bunch of snakes (Matthew 3:7), liars (John 8:44), hypocrites (Matthew 16:3), etc. On at least one occassion he vandalized a building and physically assaulted people. (John 2:13-17)

I don't wish to be rude or snarky, but I think you have this exactly backwards. Anyone who stands up for what is right will be hated by those who want to do wrong. Anyone who preaches the Gospel will be hated by those who reject it.

If a preacher is widely loved and respected by the world, he should carefully examine is message to see what he is doing wrong.

Upvote:4

You are nearly right that an important Christian ideal is love, actually it is the ideal:

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 22:34-40

However, note that this is a command which implies that we have freewill whether or not to follow it (Jesus didn't say, "I hope you all love each other!") So I take issue with your statement that anyone is causing hatred - that is a decision of the listeners (even though they sound provoked - I will come back to that).

But more than this, Jesus even told us to love our enemies and be perfect!

So what has gone wrong here? Answer: someone has chosen to preach one part of Christian teaching while apparently excluding the rest. Jesus had this to say about that attitude:

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Matthew 7:1-5

We've all sinned and, ironically, it appears that while this preacher was pointing out others' sins, he was himself sinning in his attitude.1

So I think you witnessed something not worthy of Jesus, not loving, and I'm so sorry it happened. Sounds like it has done more harm than good.

1 I wasn't there - I'm just going on how you've described it.

Upvote:4

Jesus says "Blessed (happy, but not in the common sense) are you when they utter all sorts of things falsely because of me. "

If this fellow persisted in when he ardently thought was right, just and beneficial for his fellow man, there is no real reason for him to stop just because he is being jeered at.

However, if his words come not from love of others whose personhood he treasures above all else, then as St. Paul puts it, he is a resounding gong.

Regarding what you said about "not hate" being the minimum of the Christian ideal. Well (and I know I don't speak for all Catholics or Christians) but my Bishop has preached against the false virtue of tolerance and really opened my eyes to the fact that if we tolerate someone whom we ardently believe is hurting themselves or society or blaspheming God (and thereby hurting themselves much more than they could possibly know) that tolerance is just plain old morally impermissible and because of this one must make a resolution to act, according to ones conscience, to do whatever necessary to bring about the Kingdom of God. One must present the Gospel in a way that is not just palatable, but above all true.

Upvote:4

The Basis of Love

This is an interesting question. You are correct in that we as Christians are commanded to love. This was modeled for us by Jesus, who loved the world, forgave those who called for His crucifixion, washed the feet of His disciples, touched the leper, removed people's shame, and set people free.

Homosexuality and Sin

I understand that many people today believe that h*m*sexuality is either genetic or natural and not immoral. That is not the biblical view and not the view of those who follow the teachings of the Bible. It's certainly a modern view in this country, still listed as "abnormal" behavior in psychology books until the last half century when they were pressured by the gay community to change that.

The Bible does classify h*m*sexuality as immoral, along with many other things, including lying, cheating, deceit, envy, jealousy, bitterness, lust, adultery, and murder. The Bible teaches that all of these sins actually hurt not just the victims (when there are such) but also those who commit the sins. As one writer said, "bitterness if the poison I drink hoping it will kill someone else."

We as Christians are not to hate anyone who does any of these things. The reality is that we ourselves are guilty of some or many or all of these sins, at least in our hearts as Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount. (Matthew 5-7)

The Message of Christianity

So, the message of Christianity is that sin destroys. We hurt ourselves when we sin. However, there is healing and restoration and forgiveness and wholeness and joy and peace that Jesus offers.

The testimonies of those who have experienced this is enormous. David Berkowitz, the infamous Son of Sam who murdered and raped women, actually experienced this through Jesus and is now a completely different person who remains repentant over what he did. He would testify that Jesus transformed him and set him free from his sin.

There are definitely thousands of people who have experienced the same thing regarding a h*m*sexual lifestyle. These are real people with real lives who experienced this.

So, the person whom you heard could have had the motive to share with people who felt trapped by h*m*sexuality, who wanted to be free of it, who wanted healing and restoration, but who did not know it was even possible. He likely wanted to let them know that it was available to them.

The Hatred

It is interesting that this person who proclaimed freedom and healing was not exhibiting hate towards anyone (or at least you did indicate that he was--certainly he should not have been), but many other people were exhibiting hatred towards him.

Jesus actually taught that Christians would be hated, so there's not a whole lot we can do about that. It doesn't really matter if we are speaking about what is and is not immoral, that mankind is sinful, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, that Jesus is God, or many other things. People will hate Christians.

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. John 15:18-19 ESV

Yet, we are also under obligation to go into all the world and bring the message of forgiveness and reconciliation and restoration to all people.

True Love

For those of us who believe that Jesus is God and the Bible is His Word, the most loving thing we could do is to tell people about Jesus. Because if that is true, then we really are all separated from God because of our sin, but there is healing and wholeness and joy and peace and forgiveness and life available to all people through Jesus.

If all the world is infected with a deadly disease, and I have the cure, then to not offer that to anyone would be to demonstrate the must vile hatred possible. The most loving thing would be to offer that to all people free of charge.

People may disagree with the Christian and think he is mistaken, but the heart of the Christian is to offer what is good to those who are hurting--not to just to make people feel guilty.

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