Contradictions from Monks regarding Precepts vs Commandments and punishment

It would be wrong view not wrong speech if in fact they were wrong.

Karma is not punishment it is cause and effect.

There is no "post mortem", there is no death. All that there is is moment by moment awareness of mindbody experience.

Also, you are forgetting that there is faith in Buddhism. It's an important faculty that needs to be balanced with wisdom.

All the proof is found inside us, moment by moment. Nobody else can see this proof so those who's religion is science can't understand the concept of ineffable proof. If they can't go after the proof with tools in a laboratory then they believe this proof can't be real. The laboratory is the mind and why does proof need more than one person?

So, it's not wrong speech for one to speak as though one believes in things that are wrong, it's wrong view but who says? Believing someone has wrong view or wrong anything, is a view, wrong view. All views and any views are **wrong views*_, ultimately.

It appears preachers of post-mortem rebirth are engaged in false speech, which is defined as follows:

If he doesn't know, he says, 'I know.' If he does know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I have seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' Thus he consciously tells lies for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of a certain reward. He speaks out of season, speaks what isn't factual...

AN 10.176

An explanation of this phenomena is these monks have an unreflective & materialistic faith in the sutta teachings, which causes them to misinterpret what they read in scripture, as follows:

There are two kinds of language. One is the conventional language that ordinary people speak, what I call "people language." People language is used by the ordinary people who don't understand Dhamma very well and by those worldly people who are so dense that they are blind to everything but material things. Then, there is the language which is spoken by those who understand reality (Dhamma), especially those who know and understand reality in the ultimate sense. This is another kind of language. We can call it "Dhamma language." You always must take care to recognize which language is being spoken.

Ajahn Buddhadasa

Thus, when these monks read words such as "birth", "death", "kaya" ("body"), "heaven", "hell", etc, in the suttas, they interpret them materialistically or physically rather than mentally. For example, about "hell" that is directly knowable, the suttas say:

I have seen, bhikkhus, the hell named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable.

SN 35.135

Another explanation of this phenomena is the minds of these monks are polluted by the five hindrances, which causes them to misinterpret what they read in scripture, as follows:

Why is it, good Gotama, how does it come about that sometimes sacred words I have long studied are not clear to me, not to mention those I have not studied? And how is it too that sometimes other sacred words that I have not so studied are clear to me, not to mention those I have studied?

Well, Brahman, when a man dwells with his heart possessed and overwhelmed by sense-desires... ill-will... sloth-and-torpor ... worry-and-flurry and doubt... then he cannot know or see, as it really is... Then even sacred words he has long studied are not clear to him, not to mention those he has not studied.

Sangaravo Sutta

Another explanation of this phenomena is these monks are engaged in false speech however they believe the false speech will benefit the audience because the audience is so dense that the audience are blind to everything but material things.

OP: If they say that in Buddhism there is no punishment (like in the monotheistic religions) but in the same time they belief and teach rebirth, then there is punishment and therefore they are contradicting themselves that no punishment follows. It's not an entity that causes the punishment, but nonetheless punishment.

Firstly, there is no punishment or "cosmic justice" system in Buddhism.

Rather, it's cause and effect. If you knock your head on the wall, you will feel physical pain. That's cause and effect. Not punishment.

Even in your current lifetime, you can experience cause and effect according to the Sigalovada Sutta:

Bad friends, bad companions,
Bad practices — spending time in evil ways,
By these, one brings oneself to ruin,
In this world and the next.

So, you don't have to wait till the "next world", bad companions and bad practices can affect you in this life itself.

The same sutta explains the effects caused by intoxicating substances:

"These are the six dangers inherent in heedlessness caused by intoxication: loss of immediate wealth, increased quarreling, susceptibility to illness, disrepute, indecent exposure, and weakened insight.

The same sutta explains the purpose of the other four precepts both for this world and the next:

The Buddha said this:

"Young man, by abandoning the four impure actions, a noble disciple refrains from harmful deeds rooted in four causes and avoids the six ways of squandering wealth. So, these fourteen harmful things are removed. The noble disciple, now with the six directions protected, has entered upon a path for conquering both worlds, firmly grounded in this world and the next. At the dissolution of the body after death, a good rebirth occurs in a heavenly world.

"What four impure actions are abandoned? The harming of living beings is an impure action, taking what is not given is an impure action, sexual misconduct is an impure action, and false speech is an impure action. These four are abandoned."

For lay persons and others, the Buddha prescribed the minimum set of training rules, which is the five precepts. These are not commandments or prohibitions. Rather, they are training rules. It is up to you whether to undertake the prescribed training or not.

For example, you may not be forced to join the army. But if you join the army voluntarily, you would have to observe the army's training rules. There's a purpose to those training rules, towards achieving the goals of the army.

Similarly, you are not forced to practise Buddhism. If you choose to do so, the minimum training rules would be the five precepts, towards achieving the goals of Buddhism.

Whether you practise the five precepts or not, you are still subject to cause and effect. No matter what you choose to believe or practise, there is still cause and effect in this world and in this life.

To me, the phrase "at the dissolution of the body after death, a good rebirth occurs in a heavenly world" clearly refers to rebirth. But as a secular Buddhist or even non-Buddhist, you may interpret it as a metaphorical mental reappearance from moment to moment, into another state of mind.

Regardless of how you interpret that, cause and effect definitely affects you in this life itself. It's up to you to choose to accept or reject the voluntary training rules of the five precepts, towards the Buddhist goal of ending suffering.

Although I was not present, it sounds like the monks were not referring to "punishment" in the sense of being "punished for sins" by some divine arbitrator. Instead, the fruits of karma (cause and effect) ripen and cause what we name a "rebirth" in a higher, lower, or equal realm. In the Buddhist tradition, anything that is not a human rebirth is perceived as not desirable as the human experience is the one most able to approach enlightenment.

Since the fruits of karma come about from one's own actions, it would be self-inflicted "punishment" - perhaps not the best choice of words but not wholly inaccurate. Is it punishment if you fall to your death after jumping off a cliff? We might say it is gravity "punishing" an individual in such a situation - such is the verbiage here. In Buddhism, it is up to you to experience your own karma. Nobody judges you for it or can change it for you, but karma will allow you suffer the consequences of your decisions.

Interestingly enough, the Buddha contradicted himself on a number occasions depending on the crowd he was speaking to. This was due to the skillful use of words to explain something to his listeners in a way that they could understand. Have you thought that perhaps the monks in this case were employing skillfulness in a similar manner to describe these things in such a way that it would cause you to wrestle with these concepts?

As an aside, it sounds like the real problem may be with the question of rebirth and a desire to object to any language centered around it. If indeed rebirth existed, then would you still have an issue? There are a number of highly realized individuals throughout history that have claimed either experience or insight into other planes of experience.

That said, I have wrestled with the concept of rebirth in the past and can't say that I have solved it but I would put forth a few thoughts:

1. The base (most subtle in Buddhist terms) awareness we experience seems to be the exact same awareness that animals and even insects experience. I am not talking about intellect or cognitive abilities but the simplest base sense of "experiencing the world around us". Personally, meditation on this concept has helped.

2. "Hells", "Heavens", and the like could simply be states of mind. In some ways, we are born, live, and die moment to moment as each moment causes the next, and a bad mindstate in any given moment could indeed be considered "hellish".

3. Modern neuroscience has not been able to pin down if human experience is indeed purely physical or if it is perceived by the brain. I have corresponded with numerous neuroscientists on Quora and have found a consensus that this is still the elephant in the room. Sure, we can see how the brain uses nerves to send a signal to my fingers to tap the keys on my keyboard. But the actual experience that decides to initiate the tapping? That is still elusive.

4. Modern quantum physics involves reality coming into being when there is an observer. Perhaps our experience is the observer when a quantum wave collapses? If so, it is independent of the physical universe it observes. (On yet another side note, the overlap between Buddhism theory of mind and quantum physics is a fascinating study)

And so on, I could keep going, but I think you can see there is much more here than a simple materialist approach can resolve.